tanner@uwstat.UUCP (Martin Tanner) (01/21/86)
Way back in November I posted an info request regarding
a problem I have been having with my l985 Tercel. I have
found that if I depress the gas pedal (when the car is
cold, i.e. left outside over night) the car will start
rough idling - it will start but after 10-15 seconds will
start to shake. The shaking lasts 1-3 minutes. At the end
of this period the idle speed shoots up. I brought the
car in (again) and this time they found the idle was not
properly set and the spark plugs were fouled. They set the
idle speed and replaced the spark plugs, but... it still
goes through its routine after a cold night.
Anyone have any ideas of what could be wrong? (Thanks to
the people who responded last time.)
Martin Tanner
ihnp4!uwvax!uwstat!tanner@rsch.wisc.edu
After after many a summer, a swan is dead.ams@philabs.UUCP (Ali Shaik) (01/22/86)
> a problem I have been having with my l985 Tercel. I have > found that if I depress the gas pedal (when the car is > cold, i.e. left outside over night) the car will start > rough idling - it will start but after 10-15 seconds will > start to shake. The shaking lasts 1-3 minutes. At the end I have the exact same problem with my '79 VW Rabbit. Any suggestions or info? ihnp4!philabs!ams
guzman@ttidcb.UUCP (Marc Guzman) (01/24/86)
>> a problem I have been having with my l985 Tercel. I have >> found that if I depress the gas pedal (when the car is >> cold, i.e. left outside over night) the car will start >> rough idling - it will start but after 10-15 seconds will >> start to shake. The shaking lasts 1-3 minutes. At the end > > I have the exact same problem with my '79 VW Rabbit. > Any suggestions or info? > > ihnp4!philabs!ams My '79 Plymouth Champ suffered such similar symptoms twice. The first time it was the exhaust gas recirculation valve (EGR) that openning too soon and dumping relatively unburnable exhust back into the cylinders, which leaned the air/fuel mixture, causing the engine to stumble until warm. A nasty side effect was the car would buck and surge something terrible. ( bruises and whiplash :-) ) The second time was something the opposite, the choke was not openning fast enough, enriching the mixture, and causing a rough idle. However it was accompanied with smelling black exhaust. Maybe this will help. Marc A. Guzman
marauder@fluke.UUCP (Bill Landsborough) (01/24/86)
In article <265@uwstat.UUCP> tanner@uwstat.UUCP (Martin Tanner) writes: >Way back in November I posted an info request regarding >a problem I have been having with my l985 Tercel. I have >found that if I depress the gas pedal (when the car is >cold, i.e. left outside over night) the car will start >rough idling - it will start but after 10-15 seconds will >start to shake. The shaking lasts 1-3 minutes. At the end >of this period the idle speed shoots up. I brought the >car in (again) and this time they found the idle was not >properly set and the spark plugs were fouled. They set the >idle speed and replaced the spark plugs, but... it still >goes through its routine after a cold night. > >Anyone have any ideas of what could be wrong? (Thanks to >the people who responded last time.) > > Martin Tanner It's almost definately your choke is set too rich. Or like mine it's "choking cycle" is not consistent with the engine warming rate. My 1985 Ford 5.8 liter engine has a choke which is too rich when I start it and after I drive a mile or so it is too lean. A good verification of too rich of choke is when it is shaking, look at the exhaust gasses. It will be thick black smoke and smelly. And also your spark plugs will be fouled as a result.... As previously discussed, the new chokes are "non-adjustable" but if it really is your problem, the mechanics can grind off the rivits and easily adjust it. Bill Landsborough ---- "Greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world." 1John 4:4
phil@xios.UUCP (Phil Trubey) (01/31/86)
> I have > found that if I depress the gas pedal (when the car is > cold, i.e. left outside over night) the car will start > rough idling - it will start but after 10-15 seconds will > start to shake. The shaking lasts 1-3 minutes. At the end > of this period the idle speed shoots up. I have an '83 Escort with the same symptoms. Only recently did I notice that the idle speed shot up after some minutes of rough idling. It sounds to me like the fast idle is somehow not kicking in until the car moderately warm. Is this likely? If so, is it easy to fix? > I brought the > car in (again) and this time they found the idle was not > properly set and the spark plugs were fouled. They set the > idle speed and replaced the spark plugs, but... it still > goes through its routine after a cold night. This makes me want to laugh or cry ... I too took my car in and got charged $24 for some twit to apply some lubricant to the carb, and put gas-line dryer in the gas! When I complained that this didn't fix the problem at all, the 'mechanic' came out and started up the car. "See it works fine" he said, whereupon the car started dieing. "No problem, I'll just adjust the idle a bit" ... much fiddling later the car had no choice but to be happy ... until it was warmed up, then it sounded like a jet engine every time it rolled to a stop. Needless to say, adjusting the idle didn't fix the problem thereafter either. -- Phil Trubey ...!utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!xios!phil
ccrse@ucdavis.UUCP (Steve Ehrhardt) (02/04/86)
> > > I have > > found that if I depress the gas pedal (when the car is > > cold, i.e. left outside over night) the car will start > > rough idling - it will start but after 10-15 seconds will > > start to shake. The shaking lasts 1-3 minutes. At the end > > of this period the idle speed shoots up. > > I have an '83 Escort with the same symptoms. Only recently did I notice > that the idle speed shot up after some minutes of rough idling. It > sounds to me like the fast idle is somehow not kicking in until the car > moderately warm. Is this likely? If so, is it easy to fix? Actually, this sounds like an awfully familiar story. On FWD Chrysler products cars, (non-injected) this sort of thing is a regular occurance, though in all fairness, I should say that the owners manual tells you how to prevent/fix it. On these carbs (Holley 5525, if my memory serves), the bushings through which the choke shaft runs through can gum up *very* quickly. When this happens, you have a number of different symptoms which may appear, either individually or in combination: (1) Engine is reluctant to start when cold. (2) When started cold, engine will run roughly for a while. (3) Engine will remain on fast idle for a longer time than temp will justify. (4) May hesitate when accelerating from a stop when cold. When any of these symptoms appear, the first thing to try is to lubricate the choke shaft pivot points, along with any other moving parts that move with it. On Chrysler cars, they recommend that his be done routinely every several thousand miles, but I've seen them start sticking sometimes after only a few hundred. (I usually clean things up with a little B-12 spray, then lubricate them with some MOPAR rust penetrant, which contains some graphite that seems to keep them free longer. DON'T use WD-40 - it seems to gum up too quickly afterward.) It should be easy to do on most cars, and it's worth a try before looking for something more complicated.
junk@ur-tut.UUCP (Jan Vandenbrande) (02/04/86)
Alot of you out there seem to have some problems related to rough idling with a cold engine. I have had a similar problem recently and was able to fix it. Try the following: 1] Look at the vacuum hoses. See if they are attached well, look for cracks. If you are capable, check also the valves (if any) and vacuum activated switches (if any) in the vacuum lines. Don't forget the brake booster. Mine (and many cars') works on the vacuum. A leak in that may cause you lots of headaches [check vacuum booster => pedal should go down when starting the car, car should not stall when depressing the brake violently) Keep in mind that some of the vacuum hoses may come loose and start "leaking" when warm. So check these hoses with hot and cold engine. Vacuum hoses control all kinds of functions: vacuum advance/retard, regulating air/fuel mixture, the choke, etc. So it is not unlikely that a vacuum leak may have all kinds of consequences. Look at the spark plugs. When thy are sooty, your air fuel mixture might be too rich, or you ignition is off. Check also the gaskets between intake manifold & carb./fuel injector. Leaks there might do nasty things too, but these are not that common. There is no sence adjusting your timing/carb. when you have a vacuum leak. Your car is not going to run right. For those of you with some more equipment try using a vacuum gauge. 2] Check the electrical system for bad contacts. Get a Volt-Ohm meter, the circuit plan for your car, and check whether all the apropriate places get juice, and if it is the right amount. Nowadays more and more things are activated electronically, so a bad contact, or a bad sensor will ruin it all in rather misterious ways. My problem with rough idling ended up being a corroded connector that controlled parts of my choke and the intake manifold preheat. Nothing a bit of sandpaper can't fix (to clean of the contacts) but it did take me a while to find it. This is all under the assumption that your battery, spark-plugs, coil (test with VOM), points/Hall sender, idle stabiliser (if any), injection computer (if any), fuses, relays, etc. are all functioning properly. Don't be surprised to find contacts that work part time only. So when you check your contacts, wiggle the wires to see what happens. 3] Maybe your injectors/carb. registers are soiled. This is more delicate. If you car runs well when warm, I wouldn't worry about it. 4] Pollution Control Stuff. I know very little about this area, but I do know that this may ruin your day too. 5] Check for H2O in your gasline/tank. Disconnect the gasoline tube early in some cold morning and let some of it gush into a container. Let it settle. If you find junk, complain to your favorite gas station, or check your gastank for leaks, rust, condensation water,... Be carefull though when you do the above operation. Gasoline tends to be flamable. This is about all I can think of, off hand. Try this first and see if it does any good. If it doesn't try net.auto.tech to see if anyone else has some peculiar experiences with this type of problems. Jan.
mer@uvacs.UUCP (Marc Rouleau) (02/06/86)
In article <197@xios.UUCP> phil@xios.UUCP (Phil Trubey) writes: > >> I have >> found that if I depress the gas pedal (when the car is >> cold, i.e. left outside over night) the car will start >> rough idling - it will start but after 10-15 seconds will >> start to shake. The shaking lasts 1-3 minutes. At the end >> of this period the idle speed shoots up. > I had similar symptoms with my '78 Ford. On my carburetor there is a vacuum hose plugged into a doohickey (the choke pull-off) which is mechanically linked to the air intake regulation plate (the choke) at the top. The vacuum should cause the doohickey to pull on the linkage when the car is cold. If no vacuum exists in the hose, or if the choke pull-off will not hold a vacuum, your car will not start well. If the hose doesn't deliver vacuum to the choke pull-off when the car is cold, check that it is connected properly to a place that does deliver vacuum and that it has no leaks of its own. To check the choke pull-off, remove the vacuum hose, push in the part which pulls on the linkage, and cover the hole left by removal of the hose. If the pushed-in part does not stay in, the diaphragm in the choke pull-off is bad, and you'll need to replace the entire part. The part cost me only twelve dollars. -- Marc Rouleau uucp: decvax!mcnc!ncsu!uvacs!mer