[net.auto.tech] MGB's and Webers

vuser@druhi.UUCP (GerardenC) (03/05/86)

reply-to: eshelman@tekigm2 Eshelman.UUCP (Douglas Eshelman)

>References:

>I am considering weberizing my MGB.  I would be interested in 
>hearing from anyone that has had experience with MGBs and either
>side draft or down draft Webers.  I would also be interested in
>hearing about any other performance oriented modifications that
>have been done on MGBs ( other than engine swaps ).
>
>Thanx in advances,  Doug Eshelman.

If you plan to drive the car on the street I would suggest using
a weber down draft they are much easier to tune. the side drafts
work best at high rpm, High velocity air flow is needed to keep
them pulsing correctly. The sidedrafts will usually bog at low rpm
no matter how you tune them. A good carb for the MG would be
a DGV 32/36. Headers would also make a good improvment ( dont
forget a low restriction exaust). I used this combination on
my triumph (almost the same engine) and the performance was
quite good.

If you want to use strombergs and want to get rid of flooding and
loading problems in the corners, try a Grose-jet valve in the float
chamber. They advertise in the back of auto week. I am now installing
some in my carbs, I dont know how they work yet, but I have heard
many good things. 


chuck gerarden
ihnp4!drutx!druhi!vuser

bae@fisher.UUCP (Shiva the Destroyer) (03/07/86)

> If you plan to drive the car on the street I would suggest using
> a weber down draft they are much easier to tune. the side drafts
> work best at high rpm, High velocity air flow is needed to keep
> them pulsing correctly. The sidedrafts will usually bog at low rpm
> no matter how you tune them.

I have been running a DCOE45-13 sidedraft on my '66-'67 B for 7 months
now, and it works great.  I had no major difficulties tuning it to run well
at both low and high end.  To go into the gory details:

Suggested Performance Modifications:

HEAD
----
	You did not state what year your MG was.  You want to use the
'hi-compression' (8.8:1) head from the earlier non-smog MGBs if you
have a late-model B.  Then you want to hone down the heads until, 
in combination with your hi-performance FORGED pistons you have a 
compression ratio of 10.3->10.5:1.  This will allow you to run on 92 pump 
octane Super-Unleaded without difficulty.  

	You should polish the ports of your head, but DO NOT have some machine 
shop 'port' your head for you.  The water jackets are very near the surface 
near the valve ports, and it is quite easy to ruin a very expensive head.  

	Do not purchase an aluminum hi-compression head.  This head is not 
manufactured any more, as the valve guides fall out after ~12k miles, 
however some shops still have a few hanging around which they are trying to
get rid of.

	Use stellite valve seats and bronzed valve guides, as this will allow you 
to run hotter, and on unleaded most of the time.  The extra expense is worth 
it, as leaded gas is fast disappearing.

	Fit a new set of early-model DOUBLE valve springs, but do not install 
high-performance competiton springs, as you will have to renew your cam 
every 6k miles.

	You don't really have to increase the valve crash speed (6230 RPM)
unless you plan on serious racing, and it's not worth the extra bother of
lightening and shortening pushrods, balancing pistons, soft main bearings, 
etc.

	Renew your rocker assembly and bearings while you have the thing apart, 
as old rocker assemblies do not take to the increased power, and often
destruct.

	Note that the inner two cylinders will run hotter than the outer, 
as their exhaust ports are very close together, and they share a common 
exhaust path through the head.  This should influence your choice of plugs.

CAM
---
	You can purchase through Moss Motors a 'competition' cam, or you can
have yours machined to your specifications.  Unless you are going for
full b*lls-out performance, I recommend a milder cam than the full
race.  Slightly increased lift and duration will be sufficient.  If
you increase the lift, make sure to machine the head properly to give
clearance, as there is already a tight fit in there.  

CRANK
-----
MGB cranks for the most part are nicely balanced, still it is worth checking
while you have the engine apart.

INTAKE SYSTEM
-------------
The Weber DCOE45 is the way to go, as it requires far less skill and
time to maintain, ONCE IT IS TUNED PROPERLY!  It will run like garbage
unless it is correct.  

	Suggested tuning for modifications presented here:

							Stock	Warmed Up		Full Race
							-----	---------		---------
		Auxiliary venturi:	4.5		5.0				4.5-5.0
		Chokes:				33		34				36
		Main jet:			135		140				150-170
		Air correction jet:	170		170				170
		Emulsion tubes:		F15		F15				F16
		Idling jets:		50,60F9	55F9			50F9,55F9,60F8
		Pump jets:			55		55				60

	There is quite a bit of variance in the idle jet setting, depending 
on the idle speed you set, and the amount of pick-up condition you are 
willing to tolerate.  (Pick-up condition == belching fire)  The 
recommended method is to pick your desired idle speed, then try idle jets 
until you go one step too rich, then back off one step.  Setting your mixture 
too rich is bad, as it has a tendency to wash out your main bearings 
after 5k miles :-)

	Polish the intake manifold supplied with your carb conversion kit, 
it will get you 2-3 hp.  Do not use the supplied gaskets between carb 
and manifold, as they quickly develop leaks.  Edelbrock supplies an 
Australian-manufactured single-piece dual-o-ring gasket assembly which 
is far superior, for about $12.00.  It is a limited-availability part, 
as the two Australians who fabricate the assembly evidently only 
work 1/2 time... 

	Also beware of vacuum leaks between manifold and engine block - the intake
manifold mounting ears are very roughly machined, and need to be
hand-ground to fit your bolts/exhaust manifold/header assembly, or else!

	DO NOT WEBERIZE A WORN ENGINE - it will surely die.


EXHAUST
-------
	Headers and free-flow exhaust system.


MAIN ENGINE
-----------
	You can go oversize up to .040 if you want.  I have kept mine stock 
displacement for aesthetic reasons.  Do not use the soft high-performance 
competition bearings on your mains (incidentally, do not hype an early 
3-main bearing engine - it won't last long), as you will have to renew 
them quite often.  
	
	Do use the best rod-bearings you can get - it's worth the confidence.
There are also special performance rings available - these take a long
long time to seat properly, but if you are willing to baby the engine until
they seat, you should use them.

DRIVETRAIN
----------
	Competition clutch and pressure plate are necessary.  I suggest putting
some ballistic nylon or wire mesh between you and the clutch if you 
enjoy walking, and plan to drive the car hard...

	The rear end is sufficiently strong to handle the added power without
modification.

	If you are rebuilding your gearbox at this time and you have an 
early-style gearbox, it is possible to make first, second, and third 
gear a bit closer in ratio, thus avoiding the classic MG 
'missing-syncro-in-second' syndrome, if you can find the necessary parts, 
which consist of a different ratio second gear assembly, and the 
corresponding layshaft.  These parts are next to impossible to locate, 
unless you have a friend in England with old racing parts in his basement.

SUSPENSION AND HANDLING
-----------------------
The Armstrong lever-arm shocks are good performers, if in pristine
condition.  Fit competition shock valves to these if you are using
them, preferably the adjustable sort.  You may wish to convert
to tube-type shocks.  There are two kits available, one for Gabriel
gas shocks, and one for Konis.  The Gabriel mounting system is better.
The disadvantages of these are that a) they are expensive ($400-500)
b) they increase unsprung weight.  The advantage is that minimum
maintenance will be required once installed.  

Good anti-roll bars front and rear are essential.  Moss Motors has a 
couple of pages devoted to MGB suspension modifications in their big
catalog, I suggest you look there for details.  Be careful not to
disturb the neutral handling characteristics of the car by installing
Godzilla-size bars...

Polyurethane  Bushings.

Strengthened arch springs - stock MGB-GT springs work fine.

Strengthened coil springs in front.

Clean your stearing gear, and replace the boot seals.

I do not suggest you lower your MG much, unless you have a late-model
raised MG (to meet Fed. bumper-height regulations), in which case you
ought to ASAP.  MG's do not have enough ground clearance for American
city driving as it is, no need to complicate things.  Any more than 3/4
inch lowering, and you will have problems with speed bumps, sewer drains
in driveways, small rocks and branches on the road, etc.

A good roll cage or properly braced bar will go a long way in stiffening
up the MG frame, which is normally quite flexible.  A brace in the engine 
compartment is also useful.

Replace the two 6v batteries in the rear of the cockpit with a good 12v
battery located in the right rear of the boot.  This will save you
time and money in maintaining your batteries.  If you are philisophically
opposed to this, you can place a single small-import 12v battery in the
right battery well, and get much the same effect.

Wires wheels are not the most performance oriented wheels available,
but what the heck - they sure look nice if you've got them.  If
you don't, avoid them like the plague, if you do, you might as well
learn to live with them.

Tires make a world of difference on the MG.  I run Yoko A008's, 
185/70 R14s.  These are pretty bad in the rain though.  See the
latest tire comparison arguments for details.

IGNITION
--------
	If you have fitted the Weber system, make sure that your stock Lucas
distributor has the proper advance abilities, as there is no vacuum
outlet on the Weber, so you will be using centrifugal advance alone.
Mallory makes a distributor which fits your MG which has adjustable
advance characteristics, and which will work fine without vacuum, if
you do not wish to play with the Lucas.  

	Lucas makes a good high-energy coil which seems to lead to more reliable
ignition, particularly at high rpm.

	See the previous note on plugs.

BRAKES
------
	The Lockheed braking system normally fitted by the manufacturer is quite
adequate, but maintain it very regularly.  The front hoses like to break.
Often.  You may wish to fit a dual master cylinder if you have an early
single master system.  It won't help much though - just keep your
handbrake adjusted properly, and be alert.

MISC
----
	British Leyland put out a Performance Tuning Guide and a Special Tuning
Guide, which contain detailed information on the machine work you
can do on your engine to achieve various levels of performance and
reliability (inversely related, of course).  One of these is reprinted 
in 'The Complete MGB', a very good shop manual.

Parts sources:
	Moss Motors:		800-322-6985  ask for their big MGB catalog
	Victoria British:	800-255-0088
	Dolphin Coventry:	415-964-2414  Weber conversion specialists
-- 
                    Brian A. Ehrmantraut

					Ad Maioram Gloriam Hasturi!

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