[net.micro.amiga] on interlace

keithe%tekgvs%tektronix.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa (09/12/85)

From: keithe%tekgvs%tektronix.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa


Subject: Interlaced monitor Date: 10 Sep 85 17:03:33 GMT Apparently-To:
info-amiga-from-usenet@RUTGERS


>> I can't figure out what an interlaced monitor is.
>> What will look better in the Amiga: 640x400, or
>> 640x200? Does it matter?

>The price one pays is flicker, since screen sweeps are only done 30
>times a second, as opposed to 60 times a second during non-interlace.
>Thus a higher persistance monitor is needed to eliminate flicker.

Well, not really... One of the *advantages* of interlace is that
flicker is reduced. A "half" frame is generated every 1/60 of a second,
but that half-frame is distributed over the entire face of the crt.
Then, 1/60th of a second later, the intervening lines are drawn for the
other half of the frame. (P.S., each half-frame is referred to as a
"field.") So the eye thinks it's getting refreshed 60 times every
second  - because it can't distinguish the separate lines - instead of
at a 30 per second, which would be very noticeably flickering.

Keith Ericson  at TekLabs (resident factious factotum)
Tektronix, PO 500, MS 58-383
Beaverton OR 97077
(503)627-6042
uucp:	 [ucbvax|decvax|ihnp4|(and_many_others)]!tektronix!tekgvs!keithe
CSnet:	 keithe@tek
ARPAnet: keithe.tek@rand-relay

skinner@saber.UUCP (Robert Skinner) (09/13/85)

> From: keithe%tekgvs%tektronix.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
> 
> 
> >> I can't figure out what an interlaced monitor is.
> >> What will look better in the Amiga: 640x400, or
> >> 640x200? Does it matter?
> 
> >The price one pays is flicker, since screen sweeps are only done 30
> >times a second, as opposed to 60 times a second during non-interlace.
> >Thus a higher persistance monitor is needed to eliminate flicker.
> 
> Well, not really... One of the *advantages* of interlace is that
> flicker is reduced. A "half" frame is generated every 1/60 of a second,
> but that half-frame is distributed over the entire face of the crt.
> Then, 1/60th of a second later, the intervening lines are drawn for the
> other half of the frame. (P.S., each half-frame is referred to as a
> "field.") So the eye thinks it's getting refreshed 60 times every
> second  - because it can't distinguish the separate lines - instead of
> at a 30 per second, which would be very noticeably flickering.
> 
> Keith Ericson  at TekLabs (resident factious factotum)
> Tektronix, PO 500, MS 58-383
> Beaverton OR 97077
> (503)627-6042
> uucp:	 [ucbvax|decvax|ihnp4|(and_many_others)]!tektronix!tekgvs!keithe
> CSnet:	 keithe@tek
> ARPAnet: keithe.tek@rand-relay

NO, NO, NO!!  If you draw a lone horizontal line on the screen, it
*will* flicker, because it is only refreshed 30 times a second.  Even
if you are thinking about large painted areas it doen't work.  The two 
fields are (ideally) displaced by the size of a scan-line (Or you
don't actually get the required resolution).  This usually results in
a lower overall intensity, unless you have very long persistence
phosphor.  But very long persistence phosphor "streaks" when you try
to do dynamic frames, i.e. real-time graphics.

You're not in the monitor or graphics design groups are you?

Non-interlaced Forever...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
			.. man then went on to prove that black was white, 
			and was promptly killed at the next zebra crossing.

Name:	Robert Skinner
Snail:	Saber Technology, 2381 Bering Drive, San Jose, California 95131
AT&T:	(408) 945-0518, or 945-9600 (mesg. only)
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neal@weitek.UUCP (Neal Bedard) (09/17/85)

In article <3629@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>, keithe%tekgvs%tektronix.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa writes:
> From: keithe%tekgvs%tektronix.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
> >> I can't figure out what an interlaced monitor is.
> >> What will look better in the Amiga: 640x400, or
> >> 640x200? Does it matter?
> 
> >The price one pays is flicker, since screen sweeps are only done 30
> >times a second, as opposed to 60 times a second during non-interlace.
> >Thus a higher persistance monitor is needed to eliminate flicker.
> 
> Well, not really... One of the *advantages* of interlace is that
> flicker is reduced. A "half" frame is generated every 1/60 of a second,
> but that half-frame is distributed over the entire face of the crt.
> Then, 1/60th of a second later, the intervening lines are drawn for the
> other half of the frame. (P.S., each half-frame is referred to as a
> "field.")

Er, not exactly. The rationale for using interlace is to increase the
spatial resolution of the screen *without* increasing video bandwith.
Interlace would be fine, except that long-persistence monitors tend to be
not as bright, and the `flicker' is *still* noticeable on long, bright
horizontal lines - headache fodder for the operator. Also, lp monitors
tend to leave afterimages, annoying if stuff is happening in realtime on
the screen.

Most medium-to-high end 1280 x 1024 terminals nowadays use 60hz
non-interlaced scanning with high-bandwidth (120+ MHz) monitors - including
the Tek 4115/4129 series (don't forget to ask about the F59 solids modelling
option ... :-))

Some manufacturers opt for a slightly higher scan rate - 33hz int/66hz non -
(33hz field-rate) to eliminate all vestiges of flicker noticeable on even the
best 30/60hz terminals. You have to be really picky to tell the difference,
and the difference is dependent on the viewing brightness and ambient light
level.

Just wanted to set the record straight, Time to go back to net.graphics :-)

-Neal
-- 
"whaddya mean there were bullet-holes in his mirror..."
UUCP: {turtlevax, resonex, cae780}!weitek!neal

caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) (09/22/85)

My eyes see flicker on many CRT's when they are used in rooms illuminated
by flourescents.  In a room with regular light bulbs and/or ambient
sunlight, a P4 phosphor is just fine at normal brightness, even with
interlaced video!  This combination gives *me* less flicker than some
of the smeary pastey long persistience green phosphors viewed under
flourescents.

So, if you're bothered by CRT flicker, try turning off the flourescents.
No guarantees, of course.
-- 
  Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX   ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf   CIS:70715,131
Omen Technology Inc     17505-V NW Sauvie Island Road Portland OR 97231
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