jxc@rayssd.UUCP (Jeffrey J. Clesius) (10/25/85)
> The natural persistance of the Phosphor seems to hide > flicker unless you look very very close (1" with a magnifying glass). (-: Doesn't holding the magnifying glass hinder your typing? :-) Seriously folks, As a new Amiga owner, let me respond to Commodore's alleged comment about ABasiC being enough. The answer is an emphatic NO! The Intro to Amiga manual makes reference to at least three other manuals, namely the Amiga ROM Kernal Manual, The AmigaDOS User's Manual, and the Amiga Hardware Reference Manual. NOT ONE of these 3 manuals is supplied with the system or available from the dealer! (-: I checked my empty boxes twice. :-) It appears that the only way to obtain these manuals in a timely fashion (the dealer doesn't even know when he'll see TextCraft, much less the technical manuals) is to become a developer. If all of us who are interested in the technical information necessary to use the capability of the machine we have laid out our hard-earned bucks for have to become developers, then Commodore is going to spend an awful lot of money supporting us. I can understand that the Tutorial program was not shipped, it's hard to get everything ready for the release of a new product. But hey folks, the technical manuals already exist! Do I have to be a developer to want to be able to use the capability I PAID FOR?!?! One of the reasons I purchased my Amiga is that it offered the CLI in addition to the workbench. I liked the idea of having icons for my spouse who does not enjoy learning operating system commands, however, I like the brevity that DOS command syntax offers. Where can I find CLI syntax? See the AmigaDOS manual. No AmigaDOS manual? Should I become a developer? Figure it out from scraps on the network? Try different commands? Give me a break! Apple already has a computer 'for the rest of us', don't keep me away from the power of this machine by giving me no route to it! A few examples of ABasiC (and documentation) limitations: 1. No way to get interlaced mode (i.e., 320 X 400 and 640 X 400) 2. The ANIMATE command 'may' not be implemented. Even if it is, there is no technical description of the sprites it uses. 3. No means of getting menu options from ABasiC generated windows. 4. A SHELL command allows DOS execution from an ABasiC program, what's the syntax? 5. There is a command to copy a rectangular portion of the screen to memory and back. WHERE DO I PUT IT? On top of AmigaDOS? On top of ABasiC? Silly question, the answer is obviously NO. But where? There's no memory map! 6. On a one disk system I can't get a directory of my Extras disk. When I type 'dir' it asks me to insert the workbench disk and I then get a directory of the workbench disk! If I explicitly ask for the Extras directory, it tells me to insert the workbench disk (for the 'dir' command that's in it) and then gives me a 'Volume not found message'. Cute, where do I go for more information? 7. I can guess that the file syntax is probably 'dev:dir/dir/file', after having used Unix. But what about the poor slobs who haven't. And after looking at the 'Programming in C' example printed in _Amiga WORLD_ magazine, I don't expect great programming hints from them, either. Don't get me wrong folks, I LOVE this machine. But it's so frustrating. I know where I want to go and I can't get there from here! HEY COMMODORE, do us BOTH a favor and get these manuals out to the general public, IN A HURRY, and let us fully utilize its capabilities! It's not just software and hardware that will sell a machine, it's also the way you treat the people who buy it! And the people who buy this machine are probably those who can appreciate it's sophistication enough to want to exploit it! I OWN an Amiga, and I STILL want one!!!!! -- /^^^/ / __/__________________________________________________ / !/ Jeffrey Jay Clesius !\ / / Raytheon Submarine Signal Division !_\ /^^^/ / /! PO Box 360, Portsmouth, RI 02871 !/ / ^^^^ ! (401) 847-8000 (X4015) / / ! {allegra, decvax!brunix, linus, ccice5} rayssd!jxc /! / !____________________________________________________/_! / / / ^^^^
french@caip.RUTGERS.EDU (10/27/85)
From: "french robert%d.mfenet"@LLL-MFE.ARPA
Well folks,
I TOTALLY agree that AbasiC isn't enough for ANY serious software
development. Not only does it have terrible, inconsistent documentation, but
it's also is full of bugs. I don't know how many times I've gotten a "Guru
Meditation #" while writing a short program.
Our local software store has informed me that the developer's manuals
are available now, at a price of about $100 for the complete set. At the
moment they have to be special ordered, though.
The CLI syntax really is in the AmigaDOS manual, which of course almost
none of us have. If you want to see all of the commands available to you,
do this:
1) Change into the "C" directory by typing "CD C".
2) Take a directory.
3) If you want help with a command, suffix it with " ?". For example:
1> LIST ?
CLI will respond with a very short and cryptic help line.
If anyone is interested, I have gone through all of the commands and
written a 7 page reference manual (VERY sketchy) with examples. I would be
glad to send it through the digest.
Finally, let me respond to a few of your AbasiC and OS problems:
1) The format for the shell command is:
SHELL "command" <,input file #,output file #>
For example, you could say SHELL"DIR" in a program, and the directory
would be displayed on the screen. You could also do the following:
10 OPEN"O",1,"COMMANDS"
20 PRINT#1,"DIR"
30 PRINT#1,"INFO"
40 CLOSE 1
50 OPEN"I",1,"COMMANDS"
60 OPEN"O",2,"OUTPUT"
70 SHELL"",1,2
80 CLOSE
This will perform the "DIR" and "INFO" commands and send the output to
file "OUTPUT".
2) The SSHAPE command places its graphics images in an integer array.
The format is:
SSHAPE (x1,y1 ; x2,y2),a%()
The description can be found on pages R-120 and R-121 of the ABasiC manual.
The GSHAPE command supposedly has a parameter that allows the figure to be
ORed, ANDed, etc., with figures already on the screen, but whenever I try to
include the parameter, I get a SYNTAX ERROR.
3) I tried using DIR to get a directory of the Extras disk after disconnecting
my second drive, and didn't have any problem. Try:
1> DIR EXTRAS:
You will be asked to insert the Workbench disk, and then the Extras disk.
Just as frustrated as everyone else, but exploring...
Robert French
"French Robert%c.mfenet"@LLL-MFE.ARPAbobp@amiga.UUCP (Robert S. Pariseau) (10/28/85)
The Amiga manuals, including the AmigaDOS User's Manual which describes the editors and other CLI stuff that comes with every Amiga, and the more technical manuals needed by developers will be in the stores in the next 30 days. The Amiga Assembler, Lattice C for Amiga, Amiga Pascal, and Lisp are also in shipment. (Textcraft is coming too, but I digress). The manuals have been shipping to developers in limited numbers for the past few weeks while we build up our stocks. There is really no good reason why the AmigaDOS User's Manual has not made it to the stores yet. I apologize for any inconvenience the delay has caused -- it's certainly not out of any intention to keep this stuff secret! The Amiga ROM Kernel Manual is undergoing a complete rewrite. The V1.0 manual which is part of the display sets now in the stores won't be sold to the public. The V1.1 manual should make it into the stores right about the time the V1.1 software upgrade starts shipping with the machines (late November). (By the way, we are encouraging dealers to make this upgrade available to any of their customers just by copying the disks involved -- Amiga software distributed by Commodore is not copy protected now and won't be in the future unless you guys force us to.) The latest technical information on the Amiga is available on the Amiga BBS. As I write this, that BBS is not open to the public, but we intend to make it available to anyone who cares to subscribe very soon. I'll make announcements about this, and other developer related news, on Usenet as it becomes available. While waiting the two weeks for the manuals, we will be happy to answer any questions you have about the Amiga computer. Just mail them to amiga!support. If the answers are of general interest, we will post them here in net.micro.amiga.