hamilton@uiucuxc.CSO.UIUC.EDU (11/06/85)
>Well, I am very dissatisfied with this response. First I heard the kit would be >$300, now they want $400. First we can get a system with external drive, >512k, and color monitor with the kit for a total of $1900, now they want us >to go to a store and pay $2785 for the same thing. I had managed to get >together $1900, now they want me to come up with another $885! With this >price and attitude, I'm not going to be getting one for a while, if at all. >I may even start reading net.micro.atari. Sorry, guys, but this is a bit >much for me. > Any comments out there, from Lavitsky, Amiga, or anyone else? previously, you made a good argument for commodore limiting their (initial) support effort to developers likely to produce important software products. following that reasoning, it would have been natural if commodore had only selected major software houses with proven track records (fortunately, they didn't go that far). consider how your case would look to them... here's a developer who has trouble with a $100 increase in the price of the software and documentation kit, and a $1,000 increase in hardware cost. can such a developer be expected to make many $1000's investment in manpower, etc, for program development, distribution, and support for a finished product? as for the $400 price tag, i don't have any problems with that. a good ibm pc C compiler package by itself will cost you more. if $400 includes automatic updates, a hotline, the developers' bbs, etc, it's a bargain (certainly for a developer, less certainly for the casual user). wayne hamilton U of Il and US Army Corps of Engineers CERL UUCP: {ihnp4,pur-ee,convex}!uiucdcs!uiucuxc!hamilton ARPA: hamilton@uiucuxc.cso.uiuc.edu CSNET: hamilton%uiucuxc@uiuc.csnet USMail: Box 476, Urbana, IL 61801 Phone: (217)333-8703
hamilton@uiucuxc.CSO.UIUC.EDU (11/12/85)
> Also- to the guy who complained that if you can't afford $3000 for a dev- >elopment system, you can't afford what it takes to produce software: It >does not require MONEY do develop good software. It requires time, talent, >a good idea, and as lot of sweat. Most of the software startups in the world >did not come from large amounts of venture capital, they came from individuals >with a good idea and the will to see it work. i didn't say anything to the contrary. i said that if commodore has to ration their support resources (an idea i thought you first mentioned), it would be reasonable for them to discriminate among potential developers on the basis of the developers' economic resources; it's a lot easier than trying to measure "time, talent, a good idea, and a lot of sweat". note we're not talking really big bucks here. $3,000 is about one month's gross pay for one good programmer. "large amounts of venture capital" would be at least a couple orders of magnitude more.
knf@druxo.UUCP (FricklasK) (11/13/85)
>> Also- to the guy who complained that if you can't afford $3000 for a dev- >>elopment system, you can't afford what it takes to produce software: It >>does not require MONEY do develop good software. It requires time, talent, >>a good idea, and as lot of sweat. Most of the software startups in the world >>did not come from large amounts of venture capital, they came from individuals >>with a good idea and the will to see it work. >i didn't say anything to the contrary. i said that if commodore has to >ration their support resources (an idea i thought you first mentioned), >it would be reasonable for them to discriminate among potential developers >on the basis of the developers' economic resources; it's a lot easier than >trying to measure "time, talent, a good idea, and a lot of sweat". note >we're not talking really big bucks here. $3,000 is about one month's gross >pay for one good programmer. "large amounts of venture capital" would be >at least a couple orders of magnitude more. Yes, but if they're willing to give ANYBODY a development kit but only a few a DEAL on the equipment, who needs it more- a company who will base their entire livelihood on the Amiga and needs money to pay salaries, or a company with plenty of money to spend on salaries and equipment? '`'` Ken `'`'`
tim@ISM780B.UUCP (11/14/85)
> Also to the guy who complained that if you can't afford $3000 > for a development system, you can't afford what it takes to > produce software: It does not require MONEY do develop good > software. But if you can't afford $3000 for a development system, then you can't afford what it takes to *MARKET* the software ( Call up Amiga World and find out how much an advertisement costs ). Tim Smith ihnp4!cithep!tim ima!ism780b!tim
perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) (11/20/85)
In article <39700003@ISM780B.UUCP>, tim@ISM780B.UUCP writes: > afford what it takes to *MARKET* the software ( Call up Amiga World and > find out how much an advertisement costs ). Say, can someone post AMIGA World's advertising rates? I'd be interested in some ``back o'the mag'' dealie that would not cost a bundle. I am sure that this information would be of general interest. (of course, I should call them myself and post the results but I have no idea even what state they are based in so calling information won't help).
peter@graffiti.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (11/22/85)
> Point taken, but a development organization is not necessarily a marketing > organization, nor does it need to be. One can always (with a sufficiently > developed product) get a company with marketing experience and clout > (financially speaking, of course) to pick up your product as part of their > line. Quit a few small software developers/companies work this way. Yeh! Anybody remember Leor Zolman? Where would BDS-C be if DRI refused to sell the CP/M assembler to anyone but an "established developer"? At the very least the assembler should have been bundled with the machine, along with enough docs to use it. $450 is probably close to the best deal they could cut for Lattice 'C', but an assembler is an entirely different kettle of fiche. You listening, AMIGA? -- Name: Peter da Silva Graphic: `-_-' UUCP: ...!shell!{graffiti,baylor}!peter IAEF: ...!kitty!baylor!peter
bruceb@amiga.UUCP (Bruce Barrett) (11/24/85)
In article <456@graffiti.UUCP> peter@graffiti.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: >> Point taken, but a development organization is not necessarily a marketing >> organization, nor does it need to be. One can always (with a sufficiently >> developed product) get a company with marketing experience and clout >> (financially speaking, of course) to pick up your product as part of their >> line. Quit a few small software developers/companies work this way. Yes, a very reasonable way to work if you have a good idea but little/no manufacturing and marketing experience. >Yeh! Anybody remember Leor Zolman? Where would BDS-C be if DRI refused to >sell the CP/M assembler to anyone but an "established developer"? At the >very least the assembler should have been bundled with the machine, along >with enough docs to use it. $450 is probably close to the best deal they >could cut for Lattice 'C', but an assembler is an entirely different >kettle of fiche. You listening, AMIGA? The $450 includes: Lattice C compiler + libraries and ~80 include files Overlay - Linker Assembler + libraries and ~80 include files 3 DOS manuals Hardware manual ROM Kernel manual Intuition Manual (that's a total of 7-3/4 pounds of manuals!) The Assembler is available seperatly for $100. You may also want all the manuals for another $100. Previous mail indicated the address in West Chester to send for. Send me mail if you need it. --Bruce
richr@iddic.UUCP (Rich Rodgers) (11/26/85)
In article <284@well.UUCP> perry@well.UUCP (Perry S. Kivolowitz) writes: > >Say, can someone post AMIGA World's advertising rates? I'd be interested >in some ``back o'the mag'' dealie that would not cost a bundle. I am sure >that this information would be of general interest. > RATES 1x 3x 6x 9x 12x ... --------------------------------------------------- Full 2700 2595 2540 2485 2405 --------------------------------------------------- 2/3 2240 2150 2110 2060 1995 --------------------------------------------------- 1/2 1780 1710 1675 1640 1585 --------------------------------------------------- 1/3 1350 1295 1270 1245 1200 --------------------------------------------------- 1/4 1025 985 965 945 915 --------------------------------------------------- 1/6 810 780 760 720 690 --------------------------------------------------- There you have it, good or bad! P.S. This was posted by my terminal program as one of my program modules was compiling, then linking in the background. Isn't multitasking GREAT! Thanks AMIGA. -- Rich Rodgers tektronix!iddic!richr
knf@druxo.UUCP (FricklasK) (11/26/85)
>> Also to the guy who complained that if you can't afford $3000 >> for a development system, you can't afford what it takes to >> produce software: It does not require MONEY do develop good >> software. >But if you can't afford $3000 for a development system, then you can't >afford what it takes to *MARKET* the software ( Call up Amiga World and >find out how much an advertisement costs ). Point taken, but a development organization is not necessarily a marketing organization, nor does it need to be. One can always (with a sufficiently developed product) get a company with marketing experience and clout (financially speaking, of course) to pick up your product as part of their line. Quit a few small software developers/companies work this way. '`'` Ken '`'`
peter@graffiti.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (11/27/85)
> The Assembler is available seperatly for $100. You may also want all > the manuals for another $100. Yeh, but the assembler should have been included with the machine as well as, or even better instead of, AbasiC. So much of the available CP/M software became available only because CP/M came with an assembler, and thus most people could do at least *some* development work. -- Name: Peter da Silva Graphic: `-_-' UUCP: ...!shell!{graffiti,baylor}!peter IAEF: ...!kitty!baylor!peter