[net.micro.amiga] ST wins over Amiga

rtb@ihlpm.UUCP (Todd) (12/12/85)

  After reading a lot of articles about this years Comdex it is
becoming more obvious that Atari has already won in the ST vs.
Amiga wars. The main complaint about the ST was that there was
no available software. There was plenty of software to be shown
at the show. Commadore did not show up. After reading articles
in many magazines about Commadore's financial woes, the speculation
that they were too broke isn't hard to believe. Also, a lot of
the touted software for the Amiga has yet to hit the shelves.
Atari has sold more than 100,000 520STs and now that the software
is available, distributors are again having a hard time keeping
up with demand for 520STs. A few calls to Atari retailers, especially
the mail order people can verify this. I predict that unless
Commadore can do something really spectacular to turn this
around that the Amiga will fade away by the middle of next
year.

A side note for ST fans:

Atari is now marketing a 1 meg ST in Germany with a built in
disk drive. Supposedly the ST is the #1 best seller in that
country.

						R.T. Bradstrum

mwm@ucbopal.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (I'll be mellow when I'm dead) Meyer) (12/14/85)

In article <617@ihlpm.UUCP> rtb@ihlpm.UUCP (Todd) writes:
>  After reading a lot of articles about this years Comdex it is
>becoming more obvious that Atari has already won in the ST vs.
>Amiga wars.
technically 

So Atari follows in IBM's footsteps, and succeeds with a technically
inferior product :-).

Seriously, I don't own either machine. I'm probably going to be buying one
in the near future (january), and haven't decided which. However, I want a
machine for twiddling LISP, which means (to me - I want to load the editor
and MasterScope and the online help and ...) lotsa-memory. Say, 4 Meg or so.
Atari doesn't seem to want to market a machine to do that. The Amiga is
open, and there are 2Meg boards on the market.

Of course, the plaintiff cries from people trying to twiddle the mouse from
C doesn't help the ST any.

And I'm going to ignore the prospects of Commodore going under. I'll pick
the machine that best does what I want, then support the company that makes
it.

Final thought: I'd be suprised if the ST doesn't outsell the Amiga, by 2:1
or better. After all, I expect most people to look at them, see windows and
two price tags (one roughly 1/2 the other), and buy the smaller price tag.

	<mike

kurt@fluke.UUCP (Kurt Guntheroth) (12/16/85)

On financial woes:

It is true that Commodore posted a lose the last two quarters and is
technically in default on some corporate bonds.  However Commodore's stock,
usually a good predictor of future performance is holding its value pretty
well.  Let us remember too that Atari is swimming in debt.  If Atari does
not have a very good Christmas indeed, it may disappear suddenly.  Don't we
remember all the cancelled 8-bit lines, the undelivered promises, the sweaty
times at the start of this year, atari loyalists?

On software availability:

Lets see now.  520ST's became available in June and the software is now
ready in December.  Amiga's became available in September and the software
is ready...in March?  Well, some is available now, in December, which lets
us all know where the relative priorities of software producers lie.  I
think it is easier to write programs for the Amiga and I think the designers
think so too.  I think good hardware design and good system software will beat
early-to-market.  I think no amount of partisanship by atari owners will
keep the Amiga from becomming a success.  I mean, look at the two newsgroups
and you will see the future.  .atari is full of articles doomsaying the
amiga and .amiga is full of rich technical questions and hints.  It is clear
where the software brains are putting their efforts.  Now, there are/were
some bright people doing ST stuff too, and I think its place in the market
is secure for awhile at least.  But I don't tkink the Amiga is going away.

tim@ism780c.UUCP (Tim Smith) (12/16/85)

There is certainly more software advertized for the Amiga in the L.A.
area.  It doesn't matter if the ST has more software at shows, if it
isn't being sold!  There are also more places advertizing themselves
as Amiga dealers in the L.A. area.

By the way, does anyone know what the Atari arcade game people have
against DEC?  I am refering to the game _Major Havoc_, where one fights
against the Evil Vaxxxian Empire, from the planet of Maynard.
-- 
Tim Smith       sdcrdcf!ism780c!tim || ima!ism780!tim || ihnp4!cithep!tim

dave@heurikon.UUCP (Dave Scidmore) (12/17/85)

> 
> 
>   After reading a lot of articles about this years Comdex it is
> becoming more obvious that Atari has already won in the ST vs.
> Amiga wars. The main complaint about the ST was that there was
> no available software. There was plenty of software to be shown
> at the show.

	Who said there was a war? Both machines have a lot to contibute to the
personal computer world. That aside, software at a show and software on the
shelves are two vastly different things. I am certain that if Commodore had
gone to the show they could have dug up at least two dozen software vendors to
come to the show and display their wares, even if the software is not ready to
ship. Electronic Arts, one of the biggest manufacturers of entertainment
software, just last week started shipping Amiga software. To the best of my
knowledge they are not even planning to produce on software for the ST. To
claim that the software is here based on a few software vendors at a show is
over-exagerating a little.

							Dave Scidmore

freed@aum.UUCP (Erik Freed) (12/17/85)

> So Atari follows in IBM's footsteps, and succeeds with a technically
> inferior product :-).

I still do not understand what people think technically superior is.
Obviously if price is not part of technical achievment then I will take
a Vme based Sun-3 anyday! It seems that the ST is very close technically
and indeed for a lot of people better technically and at less than half the 
cost. If all you want is a 68000 and monochrome graphics the ST has far more
going for it. This is a large market!! So if you want the animation and the
built-in sound and you want to pay for it then do so... I would rather have
the extra money to buy a synthesizer personally. (controllable from the 
*built-in* MIDI port)

> Seriously, I don't own either machine. I'm probably going to be buying one
> in the near future (january), and haven't decided which. However, I want a
> machine for twiddling LISP, which means (to me - I want to load the editor
> and MasterScope and the online help and ...) lotsa-memory. Say, 4 Meg or so.
> Atari doesn't seem to want to market a machine to do that. The Amiga is
> open, and there are 2Meg boards on the market.

I believe that 2-meg memory expansion boards are in beta test for the ST.
These require no soldering. The price is far less than the TECMAR bullshit.

> Of course, the plaintiff cries from people trying to twiddle the mouse from
> C doesn't help the ST any.

I agree thhat the software enviroment so far is better but I will probably use
OS-9 anyway and then they both will be identical

> And I'm going to ignore the prospects of Commodore going under. I'll pick
> the machine that best does what I want, then support the company that makes
> it.

??????

> Final thought: I'd be suprised if the ST doesn't outsell the Amiga, by 2:1
> or better. After all, I expect most people to look at them, see windows and
> two price tags (one roughly 1/2 the other), and buy the smaller price tag.

This could be reasonably intelligent behavior if you aren't looking for some
extraas that the Amiga has. I do not believe the majority of people really
care about amimation and fancy built-in sound, or Bus-oriented expandability.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                           Erik James Freed
			   Aurora Systems
			   San Francisco, CA
			   {dual,ptsfa}!aum!freed

jmellby%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA (12/17/85)

From: John_Mellby <jmellby%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA>

Although someone said there was lots of Atari 520ST software out,
I haven't seen any in the biggest local software chain
(this is Babbages which is mainly games, utilities, educational software
mostly under $100, with a few bigger programs, selling for a
small discount under retail).

On the other hand, Amiga software appeared in Babbages in the last week.
EA's Deluxe Paint, a few other games by EA, Activision, and Infocom.


The best laid plans of mice and men
are held up in the legal department!

John Mellby                    P.O.Box 801, Mail Station 8007
Texas Instruments              McKinney Texas 75069
JMELLBY%TI-EG@CSNET-RELAY      (214) 242-9641

srp@houligan.UUCP (S R Pietrowicz) (12/19/85)

>>  After reading a lot of articles about this years Comdex it is
>>becoming more obvious that Atari has already won in the ST vs.
>>Amiga wars.
>>Also, a lot of the touted software for the Amiga has yet to hit the shelves.

Obvious to you maybe...
I heard on the news that the Amiga is the #1 best seller this Christmas.
Amazing, considering there is so little software out there now.....But 
it's there! I've seen several different software releases by EA and 
Activision.  More coming in January.

>>I predict that unless Commadore can do something really spectacular to 
>>turn this around that the Amiga will fade away by the middle of next
>>year.

Hmmmm......looking at Commodore's track record and comparing it to Atari's,
MY prediction is that you're dead wrong.  Atari's 400/800 were pretty good 
machines for their time...what SUCCESSFUL machines has Atari put out since 
then?

>>A side note for ST fans:
>>Atari is now marketing a 1 meg ST in Germany with a built in
>>disk drive. Supposedly the ST is the #1 best seller in that
>>country.
>>						R.T. Bradstrum

A side note for PET fans:

Commodore's PET (remember those?) was the best selling machine over in
Europe when Apples and TRS-80s were all the rage over here.  PET never 
got the kind of recognition it deserved over here.  Being a success over
there doesn't mean it will be a success here!!!  (Has Commodore even released
the Amiga to Germany?....Maybe they don't have anything else to buy but
ST's.)

Next time you want to say how great atari is, post it to net.micro.atari...
we don't want to hear it.

'Nuff said!
-- 
------
S. R. Pietrowicz   UUCP: ...!ihnp4!pur-ee!csd-gould!houligan!srp

freed@aum.UUCP (Erik Freed) (12/20/85)

> Lets see now.  520ST's became available in June and the software is now
> ready in December.  Amiga's became available in September and the software
> is ready...in March?  Well, some is available now, in December, which lets
> us all know where the relative priorities of software producers lie.  I
> think it is easier to write programs for the Amiga and I think the designers
> think so too.  I think good hardware design and good system software will beat

One reason that these comparisons are so silly is that the perspective of most
of the people who write these "mine is superior articles" is limited. Atari
early on  targeted the European market and in the first year seemingly did not
care a fig about the USA. However they have managed to capture the Europeans,
and there is 10 times more software over there for the Atari than here for the 
Amiga. I like the Amiga, I really do (after all its just a computer), but these
comparisons seem to all be Amiga people saying the Amiga is better and the atari
people saying that they like their computers just fine. And the price!! (not
to mention the faster benchmarks)

> early-to-market.  I think no amount of partisanship by atari owners will
> keep the Amiga from becomming a success.  I mean, look at the two newsgroups
> and you will see the future.  .atari is full of articles doomsaying the
> amiga and .amiga is full of rich technical questions and hints.  It is clear
> where the software brains are putting their efforts.  Now, there are/were
> some bright people doing ST stuff too, and I think its place in the market
> is secure for awhile at least.  But I don't tkink the Amiga is going away.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                           Erik James Freed
			   Aurora Systems
			   San Francisco, CA
			   {dual,ptsfa}!aum!freed

jons@islenet.UUCP (Jonathan Spangler) (12/21/85)

In article <2511@dragon.fluke.UUCP> kurt@fluke.UUCP (Kurt Guntheroth) writes:
>On financial woes:
>
>It is true that Commodore posted a lose the last two quarters and is
>technically in default on some corporate bonds.  However Commodore's stock,
>usually a good predictor of future performance is holding its value pretty
>well.  Let us remember too that Atari is swimming in debt.  If Atari does

Oh, come now, shall we resort to name-calling to achieve a logical end
to this? Commodore is in serious financial trouble. Period.

>On software availability:
>
>Lets see now.  520ST's became available in June and the software is now
>ready in December.  

Uh, excuse me, but the Amiga was launched on July 23, 1985 -- 

>us all know where the relative priorities of software producers lie.  I

You know it's funny that you mention that now that Island Graphics has 
dropped the Amiga (which Commodore can't afford it seems). The thing I
have seen of software availability is that there is *alot* of software
available for the ST. Commodore admittedly has said that the software 
is lacking. Seems Comdex cleared up the issue of software -- for the ST 
anyway.

>think it is easier to write programs for the Amiga and I think the designers
>think so too.  I think good hardware design and good system software will beat
>early-to-market.  I think no amount of partisanship by atari owners will

It seems that if you think anymore, you may just overuse the word. Is
there ever a time when you do more than *think*? Do you ever *do* anything?
Hmmm...

>... and I think its place in the market
>is secure for awhile at least.  But I don't tkink the Amiga is going away.

There you go *thinking* again. Anyway, all flaming aside, I feel
a sense of jealousy here. It seems that people here have to justify
why they believe the Amiga is a better machine, because they can't
believe that a machine like the 520ST exists.        

You know, it was interesting to read the article in Inforworld (12/2) on
"Christmas Contenders". 
	"Observers have noted some clear distinctions between
	the Amiga buyer and the Atari 520ST buyer. Although 
	the ST is the less expensive computer, its typical 
	buyer is a veteran computer user, according to Martin
	Bartholomey, owner of Home Computers Co...
	
	"We're winning the battle of the techies," says Sam Tramiel
	president of Atari..."Hackers are our first customers. 
	They influence the market and tell their friends."
	On the other hand, the current Amiga buyer is likely 
	to be a first-time computer buyer, says Ed Anderson, vice
	president of marketing of The Computer Factory..."

The question then becomes: why do techies and experience computer
users prefer the 520ST over the higher-priced Amiga? Hmmm.

I probably planted a bomb. Oh well.

Aloha, 

-- 
Jonathan Spangler
{ihnp4,vortex,dual}!islenet!jons
"On Thursday, the world came to an end."

zrm@gcc-milo.ARPA (Zigurd R. Mednieks) (12/23/85)

I have not yet seen any discussion of the relative merits of Amiga and ST
software here. This is suprising, considering that software is one department
where the ST takes a good drubbing from the Amiga. The ST's O.S. is derived,
I think, from CPM68k. I never heard a nice word about that O.S. The Amiga's
O.S. is derived from Tripos (sp?), which is a very nice, clean multi-tasking
system.

Let's see some flamage here!

-Zigurd

ravi@eneevax.UUCP (Ravi Kulkarni) (12/24/85)

In article <235@houligan.UUCP> srp@houligan.UUCP (S R Pietrowicz) writes:
>Next time you want to say how great atari is, post it to net.micro.atari...
>we don't want to hear it.
>
>'Nuff said!

I guess next you will be proposing that net.micro.amiga become a
moderated newsgroup run by the folks at amiga. Interesting how
you have chosen yourself as the spokesman for everybody who reads
net.micro.amiga.

-ravi



-- 
ARPA:	ravi@eneevax.umd.edu
UUCP:   [seismo,allegra]!umcp-cs!eneevax!ravi

eric@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Eric Lavitsky) (12/25/85)

Hi,

 Well, since you cross posted this, I feel obligated to followup.
I do not care to further the Usenet Amiga/ST debate, I just want
to correct some misonformation in Mr. Spangler's article:

> >On software availability:
> >
> >Lets see now.  520ST's became available in June and the software is now
> >ready in December.  
> 
> Uh, excuse me, but the Amiga was launched on July 23, 1985 -- 

Well, if you want to go this far, the ST was *launched* in January -
it became available to the public in June. The Amiga became available
to the public in October.

> >us all know where the relative priorities of software producers lie.  I
> 
> You know it's funny that you mention that now that Island Graphics has 
> dropped the Amiga (which Commodore can't afford it seems). The thing I
> have seen of software availability is that there is *alot* of software
> available for the ST. Commodore admittedly has said that the software 
> is lacking. Seems Comdex cleared up the issue of software -- for the ST 
> anyway.
> 

Island Graphics dropped completely out of the microcomputer market and
went off to mini/mainframe land. It was a decision not necessarily made
because of the Amiga.

> >... and I think its place in the market
> >is secure for awhile at least.  But I don't tkink the Amiga is going away.
> 
> There you go *thinking* again. Anyway, all flaming aside, I feel
> a sense of jealousy here. It seems that people here have to justify
> why they believe the Amiga is a better machine, because they can't
> believe that a machine like the 520ST exists.        
> 

Well, if you're not jealous, why did you write this article defending
the ST?

> You know, it was interesting to read the article in Inforworld (12/2) on
> "Christmas Contenders". 
> 	"Observers have noted some clear distinctions between
> 	the Amiga buyer and the Atari 520ST buyer. Although 
> 	the ST is the less expensive computer, its typical 
> 	buyer is a veteran computer user, according to Martin
> 	Bartholomey, owner of Home Computers Co...
> 	
> 	"We're winning the battle of the techies," says Sam Tramiel
> 	president of Atari..."Hackers are our first customers. 
> 	They influence the market and tell their friends."
> 	On the other hand, the current Amiga buyer is likely 
> 	to be a first-time computer buyer, says Ed Anderson, vice
> 	president of marketing of The Computer Factory..."
> 
> The question then becomes: why do techies and experience computer
> users prefer the 520ST over the higher-priced Amiga? Hmmm.
> 
> I probably planted a bomb. Oh well.
> 
> Aloha, 
> 
> -- 
> Jonathan Spangler
> {ihnp4,vortex,dual}!islenet!jons
> "On Thursday, the world came to an end."

> 

Wow, you read InfoWorld! - I hear it's a great magazine!... (ahem)

Gossip is gossip - using comments from Jack Tramiel and the folks at
InfoWorld is hardly unbiased concrete evidence. Talk to dealers yourself
and you'll find most Amiga owners so far are hard core hackers (and yes,
there are many first time users buying it because they want the leading
edge of technology). The ST is a great machine for the price - I
recognize it's existence (yes, in public!). There is some good software
coming out for it (most from England I believe), and I hope it does
well in it's market niche. Please don't compare it to the Amiga, the
two are wholly different beasts, save for the fact that both have a
68000 and both can do some nice graphics (we are treading on thin lines
here). 

 I sincerely hope this is my last message posted to net.micro.atari -
I hope everyone will start concentrating on making some really
constructive contributions to their own newsgroups *soon* !

Eric
-- 

ARPA:	LAVITSKY@RUTGERS or LAVITSKY@RED.RUTGERS.EDU
UUCP:	...{harvard,seismo,ut-sally,sri-iu,ihnp4}!topaz!eric
BIX:	lavitsky
SNAIL:	16 Oak St., Flr 2
	New Brunswick, NJ  08901

keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) (12/26/85)

In article <414@gcc-milo.ARPA> zrm@gcc-milo.UUCP (Zigurd R. Mednieks) writes:
>
>I have not yet seen any discussion of the relative merits of Amiga and ST
>software here. This is suprising, considering that software is one department
>where the ST takes a good drubbing from the Amiga. The ST's O.S. is derived,
>I think, from CPM68k. I never heard a nice word about that O.S. The Amiga's
>O.S. is derived from Tripos (sp?), which is a very nice, clean multi-tasking
>system.
>
>Let's see some flamage here!
>
>-Zigurd

One reason you probably have not heard too much about relative merits of
the O.S.'s is that most of the people on the net may be programmers who
may feel that this is irrelevant to the performance of the machine.
Not to imply that the O.S.'s may have no effect on performance, but
even if the O.S. is bad for a particular machine, you can always
discard it in favor of something better (OS9 perhaps etc.), and it
is the underlying hardware that is the important factor.  The ST may
not have a multi-tasking O.S. now, but that could change next rev. etc.

In addition, you may have not heard too much about the ST's O.S. from the
ST camp perhaps because they are aware that CP/M has never really been an
O.S. but just a sophisticated loader.  And, once your program gains
control, CP/M does so little for you it might as well not even be there,
especially as far as performance is concerned if you are not doing CP/M
calls.

Keith Doyle
#  {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd
#  cadovax!keithd@ucla-locus.arpa

mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) (12/27/85)

Some pretty nasty stuff here.  Bu facts are facts:  Atari was once a $2
Billion company, and a year later was sold to Tramiel for $75 Million, and
the ASSUMPTION of a LOT of debts Atari had run up.  Also, what do you expect
software publishers with ST products (or Sam Tramiel) to say in InfoWorld?
Flaming someone's statements is typical on this group it seems, but flaming 
the person himself is pretty low.  Both machines have great technology for the
money, it all boils down to how much money you want to spend, and how much 
you value things like more colors, better sounds, multi-tasking, or some
of the other features that the Amiga has over the ST.  The ST is a great 
machine for the money, which is something that some of us Amiga owners
seem to ignore.  Now lets be nice...
(as he gets off his soapbox and falls flat on his face...)

> In article <2511@dragon.fluke.UUCP> kurt@fluke.UUCP (Kurt Guntheroth) writes:
> >On financial woes:
> >
> >It is true that Commodore posted a lose the last two quarters and is
> >technically in default on some corporate bonds.  However Commodore's stock,
> >usually a good predictor of future performance is holding its value pretty
> >well.  Let us remember too that Atari is swimming in debt.  If Atari does
> 
> Oh, come now, shall we resort to name-calling to achieve a logical end
> to this? Commodore is in serious financial trouble. Period.
> 
> >On software availability:
> >
> >Lets see now.  520ST's became available in June and the software is now
> >ready in December.  
> 
> Uh, excuse me, but the Amiga was launched on July 23, 1985 -- 
> 
> >us all know where the relative priorities of software producers lie.  I
> 
> You know it's funny that you mention that now that Island Graphics has 
> dropped the Amiga (which Commodore can't afford it seems). The thing I
> have seen of software availability is that there is *alot* of software
> available for the ST. Commodore admittedly has said that the software 
> is lacking. Seems Comdex cleared up the issue of software -- for the ST 
> anyway.
> 
> >think it is easier to write programs for the Amiga and I think the designers
> >think so too.  I think good hardware design and good system software will beat
> >early-to-market.  I think no amount of partisanship by atari owners will
> 
> It seems that if you think anymore, you may just overuse the word. Is
> there ever a time when you do more than *think*? Do you ever *do* anything?
> Hmmm...
> 
> >... and I think its place in the market
> >is secure for awhile at least.  But I don't tkink the Amiga is going away.
> 
> There you go *thinking* again. Anyway, all flaming aside, I feel
> a sense of jealousy here. It seems that people here have to justify
> why they believe the Amiga is a better machine, because they can't
> believe that a machine like the 520ST exists.        
> 
> You know, it was interesting to read the article in Inforworld (12/2) on
> "Christmas Contenders". 
> 	"Observers have noted some clear distinctions between
> 	the Amiga buyer and the Atari 520ST buyer. Although 
> 	the ST is the less expensive computer, its typical 
> 	buyer is a veteran computer user, according to Martin
> 	Bartholomey, owner of Home Computers Co...
> 	
> 	"We're winning the battle of the techies," says Sam Tramiel
> 	president of Atari..."Hackers are our first customers. 
> 	They influence the market and tell their friends."
> 	On the other hand, the current Amiga buyer is likely 
> 	to be a first-time computer buyer, says Ed Anderson, vice
> 	president of marketing of The Computer Factory..."
> 
> The question then becomes: why do techies and experience computer
> users prefer the 520ST over the higher-priced Amiga? Hmmm.
> 
> I probably planted a bomb. Oh well.
> 
> Aloha, 
> 
> -- 
> Jonathan Spangler
> {ihnp4,vortex,dual}!islenet!jons
> "On Thursday, the world came to an end."

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***

mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) (12/28/85)

In article <4301@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> eric@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Eric Lavitsky) writes:
>Wow, you read InfoWorld! - I hear it's a great magazine!... (ahem)

The latest issue of InforWorld reviews the Amiga, and is a real detriment
to the Amiga.  Not only did the article contain several
mistakes, but they reviewed version 1.0 of the workbench and kickstart,
which we knew had bugs.  Now, 1.1 has been out for a few weeks, and
I have not really had a whole lot of trouble with the software crashing.
My Amiga crashes all the time when I pass extra parameters to function
calls, etc., but during normal use, system crashes are rare. 

InfoWorld also talked mostly about the 256K machine, which is like
reviewing a 64K IBM PC.  The Amiga is an 8+Megabyte of RAM machine, 
and those of us who own Amigas are just licking our chops waiting for
the equivalent of an AST card.  The Amiga with 8+ megabytes and the
68020 should be compared with the IBM AT and MicroVax.  InfoWorld 
did review what they had available, but we who read net.micro.amiga and
net.micro.atari seem to be better reporters of the state of the Amiga
(and ST as well) than the "Professionals" at InfoWorld.  I hope to see
another review next week, since the new software is so much better.
Also, InfoWorld did not mention any of the software packages that I
saw several weeks ago at Computer Attic, when I bought my Amiga almost
3 weeks ago!  Yes, they probably have some lead time, but to write
TWO FULL PAGES about a machine that they couldn't even try any software
out for, and then make statements like "As an aside, we forsee a flood
of bad software written for the Amiga by programmers unaccustomed to
multi-tasking programs..." is pretty stupid, if you ask me.  They also
put an "Editor's note:" at the bottom saying how they had a "lack of 
cooperation from Commodore."  I wouldn't expect Commodore to cooperate
with InfoWorld because of several degrading articles (John C. Dvorak, and
others) about Commodore and Amiga.  Also, the Amiga was given 2 terminals.

Now to the defense of Infoworld, they did have some nice things to say
about how Intuition was as friendly and easy to use as the MAC.

Please note, this article is very comparable to Infoworld's, except
turned around so that InfoWorld is the one getting roasted.  InfoWorld
did not even mention a single piece of software that we have all been
seeing and hearing about since they were anounced and demonstrated at
the June launch.  Off the top of my head, I can think of Flight Simulator,
the digitizer, perhaps 10 different Electronic Arts titles, Chang Labs
(InfoWorld gave their IBM PC software good reviews) has some business-type
software (I saw an accounting and general ledger package), or any of the 
other products demonstrated at the launch. Where was InfoWorld at the
launch?  Didn't they see anything then?  Couldn't they call Chang Labs
and ask for software for evaluation?  Couldn't they do any investigation
at all? 

Another quote: "Judging from the number of beta-test programs floating
around, we can expect to get a chance to judge the software side of the
Amiga system a lot sooner than we could when the Macintosh was first
introduced."  Well, in June, the Amiga had more software packages announced
(with real live developers working on the stuff) than any other PC
in history - including the Mac, IBM PC, Atari ST, Atari 800, Commodore 64, et
al.

I have been reading InfoWorld every week for a couple of years, and never
noticed anything like this before.  Typically their articles are real good.
In the same issue as the Amiga review, they review Apple's new 20MB hard
disk.  It costs $1500 and is "two or three" times faster than the floppy
disk (oh boy, now it only takes 1 minute to load a word processor instead
of 3 minutes) and they (InfoWorld) gave it 3 (count 'em) terminals.  Sounds
kind of biased (just kind of) to me...

Sorry to be so long winded...

/mykes

dh@vax135.UUCP (David N. Horn) (12/31/85)

This is the second posting that I have seen that implies that the Amiga uses a
68020 (32-bit) CPU. I thought it used a 68000 (16-bit). Am I wrong?
	Dave Horn, AT&T Bell Labs.

mahar@fear.UUCP (mahar) (12/31/85)

In article <157@ism780c.UUCP>, tim@ism780c.UUCP (Tim Smith) writes:
> By the way, does anyone know what the Atari arcade game people have
> against DEC?  I am refering to the game _Major Havoc_, where one fights
> against the Evil Vaxxxian Empire, from the planet of Maynard.
Atari Coin-op people don't really have anything against DEC. One of the
programmers on the Mojor Hovoc project added that one day when the 780
they were running on was exceptionally slow. The higher ups didn't know
what Evil Vaxxion Empire ment so they left it in the game.

hes@ecsvax.UUCP (Henry Schaffer) (12/31/85)

> This is the second posting that I have seen that implies that the Amiga uses a
> 68020 (32-bit) CPU. I thought it used a 68000 (16-bit). Am I wrong?
> 	Dave Horn, AT&T Bell Labs.
   It's just people discussing what a wonderful machine this would be *IF*
it had a 68020 and 8+Mb of RAM, and especially how much better this would be
than today's ST.  1/2 :-)
--henry schaffer