martin@sdcsvax.UUCP (Bruce Martin) (01/17/86)
I would like to begin a discussion in this newsgroup of what it would
take to make AmigaDos "feel" like Unix and how such a "feeling" could be
cooperatively created by us in the public domain. I begin the discussion by
saying what I think is needed:
1. A Unix like shell supporting regular expression file name expansion,
background execution, io redirection and pipes (see below).
2. Public domain versions of important utility programs, with the same
options. Namely, cat, ls, rm, mkdir, rmdir, mv, cp. I have already
renamed the AmigaDos equivalents of these programs but this is really
inadequate because they handle arguments and options differently.
I particularly miss being able to operate on a list of files and a
target directory: cp *.c ../newver
3. Lattice C already goes along way in providing many Unix system calls,
i.e. open(), close(), read() ... Missing, however, are pipe(), fork()
and exec(). Having these calls would make building the shell easier.
a) pipe() is defintely needed. A "pipe" device could be added to AmigaDos.
b) The Execute() call in AmigaDos is one of the weirdest system calls
that I have ever seen. The semantics of the si parameter are lunar.
It probably would suffice for building a shell (???). Or could
LoadSeg() and CreateProc() be used to build fork() and exec()?
Why I think we should discuss doing this?
*) For most of us, Unix is a nice environment for software development.
It's like family. AmigaDos has similar concepts and power but
unfamiliar.
*) AmigaDos supports the Amiga specialized hardware. Porting Unix or
unix-like to Amiga, would require a lot of work to support the
hardware. Also living with AmigaDos lets us run the excellent packages
already produced for it.
*) If Commodore folds and takes Amiga down with it, our $$$ are protected
because software targetted for Unix can be easily ported to the Amiga.
(or at least public domain unix software, source included.)
*) 1,2,3 above is probably not that much work if done cooperatively.
Comments, suggestions, discussion????mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) (01/18/86)
I posted a "dumb terminal" program a while back. Using such a program, an Amiga can be a terminal on a Unix Computer (unix in a window on the Amiga?!?) and AmigaDos applications in other windows (isn't multi-tasking fun?). An enhanced dumb terminal program could (in theory) intercept character sequences from the RS232 line, much like the way ANSI escape sequences are, and other neat things can be done - unix programs can open windows on the Amiga, unix programs can read the mouse coordinates from the Amiga, file sharing (crude but effective), remote batch service, multiple unix cli's (1 per window), multiple users signed on at the same time on the same amiga (why not?), redirection of unix IO through the translator and narrator devices (unix can talk?), and more. This sounds like Amiganix to me. Your ls command for the Amiga should have a switch to get it's filenames from unix instead of from AmigaDos. Unix programs might actually require porting of some of AmigaDos routines, like OpenWindow, OpenScreen, and 400 more. If Unix had a standard terminal with the capabilities of the Amiga, its programs would be less generic and would have a real nice interface It's already (almost) been done - the AT&T 7300 PC (If you haven't seen one yet, itis the closest thing around to the Amiga [amazingly close] I have seen).
star@fluke.UUCP (David Whitlock) (01/19/86)
I second the 'emotion'!! It seems that most micro manufacturers emulate
Unix in many ways. They change this around and that around, add a few
options here, strip a few options there, but ultimately everything is some
what Unix flavored. Amiga is so close I can taste it, but they too have
not been bold enough to standardize, at least in practice only.
Earlier, I started a discussion about wildcards and pipes... It seems from
that seed, many other developers feel the same frustration. From a users
point of view, Workbench is a great tool and maybe most would never venture
to the depth of AmigaDOS (just a guess). From a developers point of view,
one who spends most of his/hers waking hours programming on large main-frames,
one can only guess the frustration felt when after hours, with a cup of coffee
in hand, learing the alternate syntax and names to tools he/she uses most
naturally in the big world. This is not to say that there are not alternatives
to the Unix approach, but Unix seems to be the most natural for C etc.
Best Regards,
-- Dave Whitlock
{decvax!microsof,uw-beaver,ssc-vax,allegra,lbl-csam}!fluke!star
John Fluke Mfg. Co., 33031 Schoolcraft Road, Livonia, MI 48150
--
-- Dave Whitlock
{decvax!microsof,uw-beaver,ssc-vax,allegra,lbl-csam}!fluke!star
John Fluke Mfg. Co., 33031 Schoolcraft Road, Livonia, MI 48150