[net.micro.amiga] Amigaterm/MicroEMACS: Best of Both Worlds?

poggio%sri-med@sri-tsca@caip.RUTGERS.EDU (03/04/86)

From: Andy Poggio <poggio@sri-tsc.ARPA>


I have taken brief look at both Amigaterm and MicroEMACS as Fred Fish so
generously distributes them (Thanks Fred!).  I think that both can offer
improved capabilities in complementary way.

First, a brief description of how I believe their input/output works.
Amigaterm seems to be smart about its input, i.e.  it knows it isn't
talking to just a terminal.  Thus, it is able to use the mouse for menu
selections.  However, for output it uses a minimally functional
terminal emulator that is part of the Amigaterm code.  The major
drawback to this is that if you are connected, for example, to a
screen-oriented text editor on the other side of your phone connection,
that editor cannot use the Amigaterm terminal emulator to do things
like clear the screen or insert a line.

MicroEMACS appears to be just the opposite.  It is simplisitic about
its input, i.e.  it thinks it is talking to a simple terminal.  The
drawback to this is that it cannot use the mouse for things like menu
selection or moving the cursor.  However, on the output side it uses
the (Commodore-provided) ANSI terminal emulation to perform
screen-oriented functions.

The question is: Can you combine the Amigaterm input strategy with the
MicroEMACS output strategy (Keyboard and mouse input with ANSI terminal
emulation output)?  If so, this would provide an Amigaterm with ANSI
terminal emulation and a MicroEMACS that uses the mouse for cursor
positioning and menu selection.  This latter capability is common on
more expensive workstations like the SUN and the Symbolics LispMachine.

Can anyone shed some light on this possibility?  Anyone want to give it
a try?

--Andy

acs@amdahl.UUCP (Tony Sumrall) (03/05/86)

In article <1423@caip.RUTGERS.EDU> poggio%sri-med@sri-tsca@caip.RUTGERS.EDU writes:

> From: Andy Poggio <poggio@sri-tsc.ARPA>
> 
> 
> The question is: Can you combine the Amigaterm input strategy with the
> MicroEMACS output strategy (Keyboard and mouse input with ANSI terminal
> emulation output)?  ...
> 
> --Andy

I have pretty much the same feelings as the original poster on this.  Why
note provide another call, similar to Text, which allows the ANSI
emulation?  Any comment from the C-A folks out there?
-- 
Tony Sumrall                    ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,seismo,sun}!amdahl!acs

[ Opinions expressed herein are the author's and should not be construed
  to reflect the views of Amdahl Corp. ]

mic@ut-ngp.UUCP (Mic Kaczmarczik) (03/06/86)

[burp]

Amigados and Intuition *already* provide a way to combine the ANSI
terminal emulation and Intuition menus and so on.  An example of this is
found in the PDTerm program posted to this group about a week ago.

How it works: when you open an Intuition window (using Intuition, not
AmigaDOS), you can also open the console.device to read and write from
that window. Voila!  You can do graphics, use menus, and send ANSI
escape sequences in the same window.

As far as AmigaDOS goes, you can tell the RAW: device to insert
menu and other events into the input stream just like a function key
or a regular key, so you can at least detect mouse moves and so on.
I'm not sure if you can get a handle on the window the RAW: device
is using, which means you may not be able to set the window title
or add menus to the window.  If anybody out there knows how to do it,
how about sharing the knowledge?

In fact, I've modified my copy of Amigaterm to use the console device,
and yup, the arrow keys send the right sequences, the ANSI terminal
emulation (kind of) works, and the only problem is that the console
device seems to be a bit slow when writing one character at a time to
the screen.

I think the reason you don't see this feature in programs like Amigaterm
and MicroEmacs is not because it's unavailable -- it's because people
need the time and documentation to integrate the feature into their
programs.  I've seen a (non-distributable) version of MicroEmacs that
uses menus for all the commands, opens up its own private screen, and
uses the mouse for setting the cursor and the mark.  Similarly, there is
no reason (beyond speed) that you can't add the console device to
Amigaterm.

As time passes, and more programmers get their hands on the
(much-improved!) 1.1 documentation, you'll see more software that
combine text and graphics in useful and exciting ways.  For the
meantime, it sure is convenient to be able to port utilities like
MicroEmacs in almost no time flat, so you can get some work done while
waiting for programs that use all of the Amiga's potential.

Cheers,

Mic Kaczmarczik					"Tensor", said the tonsor,
...!ut-sally!ut-ngp!mic				"Tonsor", said the tenser,
mic@a20.utexas.edu				"Tension, dissention and
						 apprehension have begun!"
						-- The Demolished Man

acs@amdahl.UUCP (03/08/86)

In article <3027@ut-ngp.UUCP> mic@ut-ngp.UUCP (Mic Kaczmarczik) writes:

> 
> [burp]
> 
> Amigados and Intuition *already* provide a way to combine the ANSI
> terminal emulation and Intuition menus and so on.  An example of this is
> found in the PDTerm program posted to this group about a week ago.
> 

Well, somehow the PDTerm program never showed up here...would someone
please email the source to me?--I'd really like to see how the
console.device is used!  On second thought, maybe it would be better if you 
just email me to let me know that you've got it and are willing to email
it so I can pick the shortest path--wouldn't wanna flood the net with 500
copies of PDTerm!

Thanks!
-- 
Tony Sumrall                    ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,seismo,sun}!amdahl!acs

[ Opinions expressed herein are the author's and should not be construed
  to reflect the views of Amdahl Corp. ]