mykes@3comvax.UUCP (06/03/86)
Here is a question, for the sake of discussion: What if Tandy had bought Amiga instead of CBM (or if Tandy and CBM got together)? My $.02: 1) CBM has never marketted a product of the Amiga's caliber in the US. 2) Tandy has good advertising, good relationship with the public, and . already markets several products that are used in the same market that . the Amiga PC seems to fit into. 3) Tandy has thousands of support and sales centers all over the place. 4) We'd get to see Bill Bixby doing an Amiga commercial :)
marc@osu-cgrg.UUCP (Marc Howard) (06/05/86)
> Here is a question, for the sake of discussion: What if Tandy had bought > Amiga instead of CBM (or if Tandy and CBM got together)? > > My $.02: > 1) CBM has never marketted a product of the Amiga's caliber in the US. > 2) Tandy has good advertising, good relationship with the public, and > . already markets several products that are used in the same market that > . the Amiga PC seems to fit into. > 3) Tandy has thousands of support and sales centers all over the place. ... If Tandy is soooo good at making computers then why is it when I go into ANY Radial Slack store and buy something the clerk writes up my receipt using a "BICwriter" and a pad w/carbon paper copies???? Don't they trust their own machines and/or personnel???? ... > 4) We'd get to see Bill Bixby doing an Amiga commercial :) ... Frankly, I'd hold out for Ray Walston...the poor fellow hasn't had steady work since "My Favorite Martian" went off the air. -:)
tim@ism780c.UUCP (06/05/86)
In article <527@3comvax.UUCP> mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) writes: >Here is a question, for the sake of discussion: What if Tandy had bought >Amiga instead of CBM (or if Tandy and CBM got together)? > a) It would not be called an Amiga. It would be TRS-something. b) It would cost twice as much. c) When you bought one, you would get a card for a free battery every month. :-) -- Tim Smith sdcrdcf!ism780c!tim || ima!ism780!tim
rodney@gitpyr.UUCP (RODNEY RICKS) (06/06/86)
In article <527@3comvax.UUCP>, mykes@3comvax.UUCP writes: > Here is a question, for the sake of discussion: What if Tandy had bought Here is something even more weird. Tandy almost sold Commodore PET's instead of making their own TRS-80's, but they wanted exclusive rights to the machines, and Commodore wouldn't give it to them (or at least that's what I have read). Does anyone care to very this?? (Does anyone care about this??) > Amiga instead of CBM (or if Tandy and CBM got together)?
mykes@3comvax.UUCP (06/06/86)
In article <2482@ism780c.UUCP> tim@ism780c.UUCP (Tim Smith) writes: >In article <527@3comvax.UUCP> mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) writes: >>Here is a question, for the sake of discussion: What if Tandy had bought >>Amiga instead of CBM (or if Tandy and CBM got together)? >> > >a) It would not be called an Amiga. It would be TRS-something. would you believe the Tandy Amiga 1000? They would probably keep the Amiga name for recognition. > >b) It would cost twice as much. > Why? Doesn't Tandy sell a PC clone for < $1000? >c) When you bought one, you would get a card for a free battery > every month. :-) >-- How many batteries does it take to power an Amiga? :) >Tim Smith sdcrdcf!ism780c!tim || ima!ism780!tim Seriously, there have got to be 4 to 5 times the number of Radio Shlocks to current Amiga dealers, plus respectable (no comment:) dealers who are used to demonstrating sophistocated hardware. There are Radio Shacks that serve towns like Livermore California and Podunk Iowa - towns that I find hard to believe that have Amiga dealers. I'd like to see Jack Tramiel run Tandy out of business too (the way I see it, he left CBM in the mess it's in now, plus he turned Atari into a $75Million company when 2 years earlier it was a $2 Billion company with the C64 burying the Atari 800). Atari would have to start selling things like Armatron (a robot arm toy), stereos, TVs, and all the rest of the electronic stuff that Tandy sells. One last point: would the Amiga be any less of a machine if it had the Tandy label instead of the CBM label? (I'd bet that a lot of business-types would actually think it was a better one). ------------------------------------- | ekim<--------------------------------
drew@orsvax1.UUCP (Drew Lucy) (06/06/86)
> If Tandy is soooo good at making computers then why is it when I go into > ANY Radial Slack store and buy something the clerk writes up my receipt > using a "BICwriter" and a pad w/carbon paper copies???? Don't they trust > their own machines and/or personnel???? They use a "BICwriter" because it's faster. I hate waiting for the 8 1/2" by 11" receipt produced by computer/cash registers. Also, you can save alot of time at Radio Shack by declining to give them your address. > Frankly, I'd hold out for Ray Walston...the poor fellow hasn't had steady > work since "My Favorite Martian" went off the air. -:) Mr. Walston spent the last TV season ( as in deer season?) on "Fast Times at Ridgemont High". Of course, this doesn't contradict the above statement. 8-} Drew Lucy
tim@ism780c.UUCP (Tim Smith) (06/07/86)
In article <672@osu-cgrg.UUCP> marc@osu-cgrg.UUCP (Marc Howard) writes: >... >If Tandy is soooo good at making computers then why is it when I go into >ANY Radial Slack store and buy something the clerk writes up my receipt >using a "BICwriter" and a pad w/carbon paper copies???? Don't they trust >their own machines and/or personnel???? I prefer places that use paper and pen. When I buy something from a place that uses paper and pen, the salesperson writes down the part numbers of the things I want, the prices, and I give them the money and leave. Obnoxious places ( e.g., Radio Shack ) want my name and address. The places I have seen that use computers take much longer. I walk up to the cashier, who keys in the part number ( if they can get the computer to work ), and if they make a mistake, they usually have to start over. They usually want my name, address, and phone number. They take my money. They then have to go and fiddle with the form in the printer so that it comes out right. Pause ten or fifteen seconds while their computer figures out what is going on. Then the form is printed, and I can leave. At least, this is how it works at the two computer stores and one stereo store that I no longer shop at! -- Tim Smith sdcrdcf!ism780c!tim || ima!ism780!tim
eric@chronon.UUCP (Eric Black) (06/09/86)
In article <531@3comvax.UUCP> mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) writes: >>In article <527@3comvax.UUCP> mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) writes: >>>Here is a question, for the sake of discussion: What if Tandy had bought >>>Amiga instead of CBM (or if Tandy and CBM got together)? > > [... lots of RS dealers, Tramiel's track record...] > >One last point: would the >Amiga be any less of a machine if it had the Tandy label instead of the CBM >label? (I'd bet that a lot of business-types would actually think it was >a better one). Maybe in the US, but in Europe (as others have pointed out before), CBM is a big name in the business PC market, particularly with their PC-clone, and the Amiga is taking off quite well, partially (no doubt) due to the good name CBM has in the business community. Too bad the marketing types in this country can't make up their mind (?) about where to target their efforts. They so far have made half-hearted attempts to attract the home, game, and business markets, but not followed through well on any of them. My opinion is that the Amiga will NOT succeed without widespread availability of powerful and meaningful software that businesses need and use. We should at least be able to get many of the same software titles that people recognize and purchase for their PC's. So far things are just trickling out... If the Amiga (and CBM mfg/distribution/support) can survive a year (six months? pick a number), we should reach critical mass and really take off. The IBM-PC had an unfair advantage at its debut -- it's parentage (regardless of its actual merit). We don't have a whole lot of time, especially in view of the recent layoffs. It seems to be up to the third-party developers now to give the public powerful, useful, irresistable programs that they *MUST HAVE*, and (how about that) require the Amiga hardware to be fully effective. Isn't that the correct way to do things: find software that suits your needs, then buy the hardware to run it. The real marketing/sales job then is to make the software so attractive that people can't live without it. The machines will sell naturally. -- Eric Black "Garbage In, Gospel Out" UUCP: {sun,pyramid,hplabs,amdcad}!chronon!eric
haddock@ti-csl (06/10/86)
Wow! If Tandy had bought Amiga then we'd have the first T&A
computer, right??? (If you don't understand this then you're
probably too young. :-)
>Why does Radio Shack use BICWriters?
How many sale people have you seen that can type half-way decently?
Then again, it's mostly numbers that they'd need to type. Also,
you'd have to have 2 or 3 machines per store (for convience) and
most stores are already over crowded with mechandise(?).
-Rusty-
================================================================
*hardcopy* *electr{onic, ic}*
Rusty Haddock ARPA: Haddock%TI-CSL@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
POB 226015 M/S 238 CSNET: Haddock@TI-CSL
Texas Instruments Inc. USENET: {ut-sally,convex!smu,texsun}!ti-csl!haddock
Dallas, Texas 75266 VOICE: (214) 995-0330knudsen@ihwpt.UUCP (mike knudsen) (06/10/86)
> Here is a question, for the sake of discussion: What if Tandy had bought > Amiga instead of CBM (or if Tandy and CBM got together)? > > My $.02: > 1) CBM has never marketted a product of the Amiga's caliber in the US. > 2) Tandy has good advertising, good relationship with the public, and > . already markets several products that are used in the same market that > . the Amiga PC seems to fit into. > 3) Tandy has thousands of support and sales centers all over the place. > 4) We'd get to see Bill Bixby doing an Amiga commercial :) Who is Bill Bixby? Does RShack advertise on TV? If Radio Shack had the Amiga--- It would have come out with OS9. Tandy pioneered this OS on the Color Computer, thus keeping the Coco alive for several more years (it's still going strong). (As it is, OS9 for Amiga is about to come out. It already has for the ST, which needs it more). There would be less speculation about how much longer the Amiga will last. Tandy has deep pockets and could keep it around and support it well enough till it caught on. Unforch, RS has announced that their only interest is in chasing Icky BLue Mush. mike k Tandy is a euphemism of Radio Shackedup, Inc.
knudsen@ihwpt.UUCP (mike knudsen) (06/10/86)
> I'd like to see Jack Tramiel run Tandy out > of business too (the way I see it, he left CBM in the mess it's in now, plus > he turned Atari into a $75Million company when 2 years earlier it was a > $2 Billion company with the C64 burying the Atari 800). Atari would have to > start selling things like Armatron (a robot arm toy), stereos, TVs, and all > the rest of the electronic stuff that Tandy sells. > ekim<-------------------------------- Hold it! According to your history of Jack T, which is probably close to the truth, the only way he could "run Tandy out of business" would be to take it over and become Tandy's CEO. Fat chance (whew!). Now, if we could just get him installed at IBM ... mike k
kim@mips.UUCP (06/11/86)
> My opinion is that the Amiga will NOT succeed without widespread availability > of powerful and meaningful software that businesses need and use. We > should at least be able to get many of the same software titles that > people recognize and purchase for their PC's. So far things are just > trickling out... > -- > Eric Black "Garbage In, Gospel Out" Very true! What is really bothering me about this, is that I continue to hear (from completely disparate sources) that several major s/w houses have products that have been ported to run on the Amiga "sitting on the shelf". Supposedly, before these products will be released, CBM has to have sold some "magic number" of Amigas ... this is to insure that there is a large enough (potential) install-base to cover the cost of product support. The number most frequently heard is 100,000 units (Amigas). It is *rumored* that this is the case with 1-2-3, dBase II/III, and TurboPascal. Can anyone on the net confirm/deny these rumors ... I know that Lotus is on the net, so perhaps they would care to comment. And lesee, I recall Borland promising to support the Amiga in the 1st issue of AmigaWorld, etc. Haven't seen anything further from them since then ... looks like they are catering only to PC-DOS machines, since their latest offering (TurboPROLOG) won't even run on a generic MS-DOS machine ... ridiculous for a *compiler*! /kim -- UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl!mips!kim DDD: 408-720-1700 x231 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems Inc, 930 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 CIS: 76535,25
rb@ccird1.UUCP (Rex Ballard) (06/11/86)
In article <672@osu-cgrg.UUCP> marc@osu-cgrg.UUCP (Marc Howard) writes: >> Here is a question, for the sake of discussion: What if Tandy had bought >> Amiga instead of CBM (or if Tandy and CBM got together)? >> >> My $.02: >> 1) CBM has never marketted a product of the Amiga's caliber in the US. >> 2) Tandy has good advertising, good relationship with the public, and >> . already markets several products that are used in the same market that >> . the Amiga PC seems to fit into. >> 3) Tandy has thousands of support and sales centers all over the place. >... >If Tandy is soooo good at making computers then why is it when I go into >ANY Radial Slack store and buy something the clerk writes up my receipt >using a "BICwriter" and a pad w/carbon paper copies???? Don't they trust >their own machines and/or personnel???? >... As an ex RS employee, I can answer this one. No, they do not trust their personnel. At night, they do enter the transactions from the "carbon" into a Model IV. This information is used to assist in ordering, stocking, and auditing, but the carbons are a "check" against theft. Employees are also polygraphed before being hired, and audited daily. A lost "pink copy" can cost you your job. By the way, Tandy's marketing organization IS very good, but their engineering is always "last year's product at next years price". Just compare audio equipment, Video equipment, or any of their other products, to competitors products. Expect Tandy to come out with an "Amiga Class" or "ST class" computer sometime around the end of 1987. To be fair, Tandy is a good company. Their stores are company owned, not franchises, which means managers and sales clerks have less to lose than the company. They are also much more concerned with reliability than price/performance. If machines go bad, Tandy stands to lose more than the Full Retail Price.
doc@pucc-j (Craig Norborg) (06/12/86)
In article <503@mips.UUCP> kim@mips.UUCP writes: >Very true! What is really bothering me about this, is that I continue to >hear (from completely disparate sources) that several major s/w houses have >products that have been ported to run on the Amiga "sitting on the shelf". >Supposedly, before these products will be released, CBM has to have sold >some "magic number" of Amigas ... this is to insure that there is a large >enough (potential) install-base to cover the cost of product support. The >number most frequently heard is 100,000 units (Amigas). BTW Commodore... Is there any official releases on the number of Amigas sold to date? I know alot of people are wondering...
pariseau@well.UUCP (Robert S. Pariseau) (06/13/86)
Kim-- On the other hand, those folks who have brought out Amiga products are doing VERY well with them. (If you want to see a pleased person, take a look at Bill Volk of Aegis!) Naturally, some of this is due to the products being plain good. But much of it is due to the lack of competition! The Amiga is going to make some small companies into big companies, believe me! The amazing thing to me is just how much third party support already exists for the Amiga, Commodore's efforts notwithstanding.
kim@mips.UUCP (06/15/86)
[ "Send lawyers, guns, and money ..." ] > Kim-- > On the other hand, those folks who have brought out Amiga products are > doing VERY well with them. (If you want to see a pleased person, take a > look at Bill Volk of Aegis!) > > Naturally, some of this is due to the products being plain good. But much > of it is due to the lack of competition! The Amiga is going to make some > small companies into big companies, believe me! > > The amazing thing to me is just how much third party support already > exists for the Amiga, Commodore's efforts notwithstanding. Right you are, Bob! And many of the applications are far superior to anything that will ever run on a PC. On the other hand, in order to do moderately well in the *traditional* (read conservative, with a considerable investment in existing s/w) business market, recognized names and products such as Lotus, Ashton-Tate, etc. would be a big plus ... along with an *intelligent* advertising campaign on CBM's part (which has been truly abysmal, to date). In any case, it may well be a moot point ... *if* CBM can get the Sidecar out the door in a reasonable amount of time, at a reasonable price, with the capabilities and expandability that was reported at COMDEX, and *most importantly* with high RELIABILITY and ROBUSTNESS ... Good to see you and RJ back on the net ... hope you will continue to make it to the BADGE meetings, also (next one is the 19th). /kim -- UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl!mips!kim DDD: 408-720-1700 x231 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems Inc, 930 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 CIS: 76535,25
mitsu@well.UUCP (06/17/86)
onon.chronon.UUCP> Sender: Reply-To: mitsu@well.UUCP (Mitsuharu Hadeishi) Followup-To: Distribution: net Organization: Whole Earth Lectronic Link, Sausalito CA Keywords: Business marketplace In re: selling the Amiga to business users . . . It is a myth that the only people who use computers or buy them are business users. In fact there are *many* more people in the home and in the schools who buy and use microcomputers; the numbers far exceed that of the business market. The problem is that the machines for the home market that sell well (the C-64/128) are *very* low in price; nonetheless, it is not self-evident that you must cater to business to make a sucessful machine; there are artists, musicians, families, children, professionals, students, academics, playful people, as well as businesspeople. If the machine is useful enough or improves their life enough, they will buy it, and it need not do 500x1000 spreadsheets nor need it be as fast as a VAX (although the Amiga can do and be both.) Out here in the Bay Area the Amiga is selling like wildfire and every day there are crowds around the machine, eager faces wanting to do more with a computer than plot pie charts. The Amiga is the first computer that can even begin to address the potential of the personal computer; before this machine, to speak of personal computers was to speak of word processing, spreadsheets, and data bases. "Who needs multitasking?" "Who needs 4096 colors?" "Who needs windows, who needs 8 megabytes of memory, who needs fast graphics . . . " Try "Who needs more than 64K? Who needs something better than WordStar?" "Who needs anything more than Visicalc?" You can never have too much memory or speed; you can spend too much, however, and we all hope the price point of the Amiga comes down soon. The Amiga redefines what a personal computer can do; let's not hold it down to the limitations of the past. -Mitsu (mitsu@well.UUCP so-to-be @harvard) P.S. The Amiga with the CSA 68020 at 14 Mhz matches a VAX 11/785, and with VIP Professional and a couple meg of RAM will do a 500x1000 spreadsheet for those who are interested. Combine the two above, and you have a computing engine that will blow away an AT without blinking an eye. (Use the 68881, and it will blow away an 11/785.)
dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) (06/17/86)
A 68020 Amiga running at 14Mhz does indeed blow away a 785... but only in terms of processor speed. The 785 still has: -virtual memory (doesn't crash when your program is screwed) -a bus bandwidth at least an order of magnitude faster, -a PDP11-something co-processor to handle all the low speed serial -most of the other hardware is intelligent and doesn't need the CPU watching over it (for instance, the disk controllers). But then again, the cost difference and power requirements are such that I would probably go with the amiga. -Matt
mwm@ucbopal.berkeley.edu (Mike Meyer) (06/19/86)
In article <8606171712.AA03947@cory.Berkeley.EDU> dillon@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon) writes: > > A 68020 Amiga running at 14Mhz does indeed blow away a 785... but only >in terms of processor speed. The 785 still has: > > -virtual memory (doesn't crash when your program is screwed) > -a bus bandwidth at least an order of magnitude faster, > -a PDP11-something co-processor to handle all the low speed > serial > -most of the other hardware is intelligent and doesn't need the > CPU watching over it (for instance, the disk controllers). > > > But then again, the cost difference and power requirements are >such that I would probably go with the amiga. > > -Matt But Matt, where are you going to buy 48 or so serial ports to hang users off the Amiga :-). Lesson one in buying a computer: CPU does not a computer make. Go see net.arch for comments about the AT&T 7300 vs. the VAX 780. <mike
mitsu@well.UUCP (06/21/86)
In re: VAX vs. SuperAmiga . . . First of all, the 68020 CAN support virtual addressing if the proper support hardware is available. But the real point is that the Amiga is a microcomputer and as such is designed for one user and one user only. This is the beauty of the microcomputer concept; one user, one computer. Having the raw processor power of a VAX for one user at a relatively reasonable price is quite a real comparison; a single user doesn't need 48 serial ports, but s/he might like a 150 megabyte disk drive, four or so megabytes of RAM, and MacSyma or Home SMP at her/his disposal, plus telecommunications, graphics, etc. . . The applications for so much power at so small and compact a scale are yet to be imagined but certainly not beyond the human imagination to conceive. There is a real, tangible comparison possible for the VAX timesharer vs. the SuperAmiga; having the computer on the desk can really increase productivity if used intelligently. With a single user you don't have to worry about such things as system crashes so much; rebooting an Amiga, even a SuperAmiga (Ranger or A2000) takes only seconds. "Task helds" can be sent to the back until you've cleaned up your work, at which point you can reboot; of course, properly written software should not crash at all, so this is a problem that should be common only to the developer. Running data analysis on a Ranger-class microcomputer can be significantly faster than on a timeshared VAX; plus the data can be incorporated into a word processor and printed on the spot, perhaps with a page layout program, etc., etc.; All of this is very possible and doable now or in the near future on an Amiga; the new hardware boxes from Byte by Byte and CSA, to mention two, are very fast (the CSA box is rumored to allow drives with approx 18 us seek time), and, again, for a single user this is tremendous performance. The real comparison is: how much good work can be done by a human being on a VAX vs. a SuperAmiga? A Sun vs. a SuperAmiga? And what are the price/performance ratios involved? The Amiga clearly comes out ahead for a wide variety of users. -Mitsu (mitsu@well.UUCP)