robinson@shadow.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (07/16/86)
***FLAME ON*** I have several friends who were lucky enough to buy the Commodore RKM when it was still possible to get it from Amiga dealers. For $24.95 they got a manual thicker than the Oakland White Pages and complete with all the information anyone could possibly ever want out of it. I was not so fortunate, however, and I have been waiting anxiously for the Addison-Wesley version so I could commence with some serious DEVELOPMENT. Until now I have only been able to use my Amiga to show all the demos to my friends. I have just patiently been watching the source code posted to the net and thinking about how nice it would be to have some idea about what was going on. So the local bookstore finally received something from Addison-Wesley that claimed to be a Rom Kernal Manual. The price was the same--$24.95--but there was only a tiny part of the original manual! The book covers Exec, which is necessary knowledge for making programs behave well in the Amiga environment, but which is useless if you don't have the necessary information to make the programs in the first place! The back cover promises a second part to the RKM, Libraries and Devices, or something, which will presumably be available for $24.95 as well. After spending $50.00 I will only have about two thirds of the information in the original RKM. I suppose the missing stuff will be provided for an additional $24.95 eventually. So, whenever that day appears (hopefully before the Amiga gets obsoleted by the next generation of micros), I will have spent $75.00 to get what my friends got for $25.00 way back when the Amiga software market was an uncluttered open field. Then, hopefully, I will still have the desire to develop software for the machine. ***FLAME OFF*** --An (otherwise) satisfied customer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: Any opinions or ideas expressed above are entirely my own responsibility, but they are the intellectual property of The Regents of the University of California, just in case they become profitable. "Look, there's God coming out of the men's room." --Woody Allen, _Annie Hall_ ARPA: robinson@ernie.berkeley.edu USENET: ucbvax!ernie!robinson
carolyn@cbmvax.UUCP (07/16/86)
In article <14873@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> robinson@shadow.Berkeley.EDU writes: >***FLAME ON*** > >I have several friends who were lucky enough to buy the Commodore RKM when >it was still possible to get it from Amiga dealers. For $24.95 they got >a manual thicker than the Oakland White Pages and complete with all the >information anyone could possibly ever want out of it. > >So the local bookstore finally received something from Addison-Wesley that >claimed to be a Rom Kernal Manual. The price was the same--$24.95--but >there was only a tiny part of the original manual! The book covers >Exec, which is necessary knowledge for making programs behave well in the >Amiga environment, but which is useless if you don't have the necessary >information to make the programs in the first place! > >The back cover promises a second part to the RKM, Libraries and Devices, or >something, which will presumably be available for $24.95 as well. > First of all, what your friends got for $24.95 was probably the original 1 volume 1.0 Rom Kernal manual which was NOT complete. It was preliminary documentation for developers and was very sketchy in several areas. Second - I have seen a copy of the Addison/Wesley RKM Libraries volume and it is massive. The two A/W volumes appear to include everything that is in our more evenly divided 2 volume 1.1 Rom Kernal manual. In some cases (for example the IFF docs) the A/W manuals contain more recent documentation. I can't say that I agree with the lopsided way A/W split the RK manual, but the their 2 volumes combined are certainly worth $50. Meanwhile, I will repost the list of items available through us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPPORT SERVICES Due to finite resources, we are forced to restrict some of our support services. However, we are willing to provide a number of materials to anyone. Amiga Developer's Kit $450.00 contents: DOS User's Manual, DOS Technical Reference Manual, DOS Developer's Manual, Intuition Manual, Hardware Manual, ROM Kernal Manual, Lattice 'C' compiler and manual, 68000 Macro Assembler, and the IBM cross-development environment. Amiga Documentation $99.95 contents: the 6 Amiga manuals from the kit. IFF documentation and disk $20.00 Schematics and Expansion spec.s $20.00 (this is currently being printed, we should have them here in two weeks) To order, send a check payable to Commodore Business Machines to: Bernadette Loughery Software Tech Support Commodore Business Machines 1200 Wilson Drive West Chester, PA 19380 Be sure to specify the name of the item you are ordering and include your name and address. These materials are provided as is. In the past we have provided free upgrades; however, this is not a policy. Given the scale of the upgrades, generally it is not financially feasible to send the materials out free of charge. Other new services are available to parties who can demonstrate an ability to produce and market a product, or reach a large audience (for example a university). If you call 215/431-9180 or write us, we will send you an application. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Carolyn Scheppner -- CBM >>Amiga Technical Support<< UUCP ...{allegra,caip,ihnp4,seismo}!cbmvax!carolyn PHONE 215-431-9180 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (07/16/86)
If I might add some perspective to the following flame : robinson@ernie.berkeley.edu posted the following : > ***FLAME ON*** > > I have several friends who were lucky enough to buy the Commodore RKM when > it was still possible to get it from Amiga dealers. For $24.95 they got > a manual thicker than the Oakland White Pages and complete with all the > information anyone could possibly ever want out of it. > > I was not so fortunate, however, and I have been waiting anxiously for the > Addison-Wesley version so I could commence with some serious DEVELOPMENT. > Until now I have only been able to use my Amiga to show all the demos to my > friends. I have just patiently been watching the source code posted to the > net and thinking about how nice it would be to have some idea about what > was going on. > > So the local bookstore finally received something from Addison-Wesley that > claimed to be a Rom Kernal Manual. The price was the same--$24.95--but > there was only a tiny part of the original manual! The book covers > Exec, which is necessary knowledge for making programs behave well in the > Amiga environment, but which is useless if you don't have the necessary > information to make the programs in the first place! > > The back cover promises a second part to the RKM, Libraries and Devices, or > something, which will presumably be available for $24.95 as well. After > spending $50.00 I will only have about two thirds of the information in the > original RKM. I suppose the missing stuff will be provided for an additional > $24.95 eventually. > > So, whenever that day appears (hopefully before the Amiga gets obsoleted by > the next generation of micros), I will have spent $75.00 to get what my > friends got for $25.00 way back when the Amiga software market was an > uncluttered open field. > > Then, hopefully, I will still have the desire to develop software for the > machine. > > ARPA: robinson@ernie.berkeley.edu > USENET: ucbvax!ernie!robinson Please Mr. Robinson do not take this personally I use your flame only because it is typical of some whining that has increased in volume of late. When the Amiga came out back in October of 1985 there really was no reason for "casual" users to buy it. It had no software, and was in general quite unusable for anything but development. It was also at the highest price it would probably ever be. I bought one, knowing that the price would go down, because I wanted to write code for it and get a 6-9 month jump on most everyone else who couldn't see how amazing this machine is and how great its potential. And I paid for those 6 months. Now if someone buys an Amiga today, the same system I have (512K, extra drive etc), they will have spent $500 less on the hardware than I did. If they by the Addison Wesly (sp) manual set they will spend about $150 more on manuals than I did, however, they are *STILL* $350 ahead. As a side note, in case you didn't know, you can still buy the $100 manual set (developers, amigados, RKM Vol I & II, etc) from commodore, but I will warn you now that there are things in the Addison Wesley ones that aren't in the 1.1 manuals. So you are probably better off with the A-W ones. So please put your comments in perspective. Thanks, --Chuck Disclaimer : These are my own opinions etc. {ihnp4,decwrl}!sun!cmcmanis a "professi
kim@mips.UUCP (07/17/86)
[ "Send lawyers, guns, and money ..." ] > So the local bookstore finally received something from Addison-Wesley that > claimed to be a Rom Kernal Manual. The price was the same--$24.95--but > there was only a tiny part of the original manual! The book covers > Exec, which is necessary knowledge for making programs behave well in the > Amiga environment, but which is useless if you don't have the necessary > information to make the programs in the first place! The 2nd Addison-Wesley RKM manual is also out now (came in yesterday at the Computer Literacy Bookstore in Sunnyvale). I too expected it would be about the same size as the other RKM (and other two A-W manuals), but it is NOT! The "Amiga ROM Kernel Manual: Libraries and Devices" is about 3-times the thickness of the RKM: Exec manual. Combined, these are *approximately* the thickness of the "real" CBM 2-vol set; they still seem a little bit thinner, though. I dunno what (if anything) was omitted ... could be just a change in the type style/density. > The back cover promises a second part to the RKM, Libraries and Devices, or > something, which will presumably be available for $24.95 as well. Nope. It's about $10.00 more ... $34.95, if I remember correctly. > So, whenever that day appears (hopefully before the Amiga gets obsoleted by > the next generation of micros), I will have spent $75.00 to get what my > friends got for $25.00 way back when the Amiga software market was an > uncluttered open field. I dunno what they got for $25.00, but it sure wasn't the full documentation package ... or even the v1.0 single vol RKM manual, so far as I know. What I'd like to know is what level of s/w these RKM's are for ... v1.1, v1.2, or something "in-between". There are NO cards for updates in them, either ... where/how will NEW information be made available? /kim -- UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl!mips!kim DDD: 408-720-1700 x231 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems Inc, 930 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 CIS: 76535,25
rossi@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Lisa Rossi) (07/18/86)
In article <559@mips.UUCP> kim@mips.UUCP (Kim DeVaughn) writes: > >What I'd like to know is what level of s/w these RKM's are for ... v1.1, >v1.2, or something "in-between". There are NO cards for updates in them, >either ... where/how will NEW information be made available? > > The Addison-Wesley RKM's are for V1.1 of the Amiga System Software. There will be new manuals published for V1.2 and they will probably not be free. Having looked though the new Addison-Wesley version of the RKM's I can say that they are very close to the 2 volume set that Commodore is shipping. In fact, the new RKM's contain information that the original 2 volume set does not have (ie. a few more examples, clipboard device). -- ************************************************************************* Lisa Rossi-Siracusa Commodore Business Machines uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|caip}!cbmvax!rossi arpa: cbmvax!rossi@seismo.css.GOV or rossi@cbmvax.UUCP@{seismo|harvard} tel : (215) 431-9180 *************************************************************************
slb@helm.UUCP (San Barr lying around @ The Beach) (07/20/86)
[Eat This!] Before flaming at the fact that you have to spend $75 for 3 manuals dealing with the Amiga. First think of what you're getting? The developer's manuals that your friends bought was probably for version 1.0 or earlier (most of the 'C' source examples didn't work! And the documentation was HORRIBLE.. well.. not that bad. But I've seen better). The Addison Wesley manuals have been cleaned up considerably! If you were a developer you would have been greeted by the new 1.1 RKM's ... not one but TWO volumes large! So if you were to buy these manuals from your local dealer you'd be spending about $50 or so since the two RKM's are each the size of the original single volume. The extra $25 your spending is for distribution, revisions, and tons of little modifications.. I'd say you're not doing to badly. Now.. for the small fee of $450 you could buy yourself a developer's pkg and stop fussing. San I disclaim everything... including my existance. P.S. Sorry to bore you folks on the net... Ah, question. Is anyone having trouble with terminal emulation under 1.2?
stever@videovax.UUCP (Steven E. Rice) (07/21/86)
In article <14873@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, Michael Robinson (robinson@shadow.Berkeley.EDU) writes: > . . . > So the local bookstore finally received something from Addison-Wesley that > claimed to be a Rom Kernal Manual. The price was the same--$24.95--but > there was only a tiny part of the original manual! The book covers > Exec, which is necessary knowledge for making programs behave well in the > Amiga environment, but which is useless if you don't have the necessary > information to make the programs in the first place! > > The back cover promises a second part to the RKM, Libraries and Devices, or > something, which will presumably be available for $24.95 as well. After > spending $50.00 I will only have about two thirds of the information in the > original RKM. I suppose the missing stuff will be provided for an additional > $24.95 eventually. > . . . I just bought the _RKM: Libraries and Devices_ for $34.95 -- but it is about twice the weight of the first volume. By the pound, it's a *much* better buy! Steve Rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- {decvax | hplabs | ihnp4 | uw-beaver}!tektronix!videovax!stever