[net.micro.amiga] new threat?

leimberger@truman.dec.com (09/17/86)

I have come across a rumer about a new apple that is supposed to be a
threat to the amiga. gs... something.I feel that the amiga can hold it's
own. While our user base may not be as large the quality of public domain
own. While our user base may not be as large as others the quality of the
public domain software available reflects well on the support given by 
amiga users. This is my first venture on the usenet so please be patient
with any errors.
bill

jacobson@uiucuxe.CSO.UIUC.EDU (09/20/86)

The rumor that you have heard about is the Apple IIgs. It is a mac-like machie
with supposed higres graphics like the Amiga. The speech synthesizer built in
has a very human like voice, ulike ours which still sounds like a computer.
It supposedly will run many of the old Apple II software, but is like a mac
in its user interface. I think this is the first barage from Apple against
the ST and Amiga. It is an attempt to make a color mac out of the Apple II.
My dealer who unfortunately is an Apple dealer first and Amiga, IBM, Epson,
ect second is all wound up about it. They plan to fly it in with some sort
of big promotion here next week. I agree the Amiga will hold its own against
this new one from Apple. Actually it is kind of flattering. The Amiga improved
on the Mac by long way, but it was imitation the path blazed by the Mac. Now
the new Apple II is trying to imitate the path blazed by the Amiga and ST. It
never ends.

wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (09/23/86)

### Hi line munchie. ###

	At first blush, I feared that the Apple // GS might be the
demise of the Amiga.  In reality, they seem to be aiming at a
different group of, albeit probably more profitable, group of
consumers.

	The GS is really aimed at the big group of Apple ][ users
that are anxious for more power from the Apple, rather than
desiring the features of the Amiga.  The main fix will be *finally*
giving the Apple a decent address space to run modern programming.
It sure has been blinking hard for me to write nice stuff because
of the tiny 64K memory.  The GS will be a relief, especailly since
it has good support from the [ROM] O.S. a-la Amiga and Mac.

	The GS still is not an Amiga, though, as  as far I know
that the updated ProDOS/16 OS that it is going to have does not
support multitasking in the way we are accustomed on the Amiga.
I'd bet that programming for the GS is going to be very MAC-like,
where your own program has to call the OS all the time in order to
keep the system breathing.

	The sound for the GS seems to be the most exciting part of
the machine.  Its sound chip has 15 (I presume) DMA channels for
output.  I don't know if they are real ADCs as in the Amiga.  The
preview I read claimed that the GS also had a built-in audio input,
presumably for digitizing sound.

	I forget the exact numbers, but the GS video display should
be roughly equivalent to the Amiga hi-res noninterlaced display
mode.  The apple, I think, offers more colors.  (The amiga has
enough colors for me, thanks any way.)

	Given that the GS is not a quantum step, I don't think that
it will terribly interest Atari, Amiga, and MAC owners.  The GS is
also relatively expensive for what you get.  (Remember that Apple
discounts aren't very good for consumers.)  For the cost of the
Apple system box, I can buy an entire Amiga or ST.  Also Apple's
attitude is that their computers should be treated more as
appliances, rather than hacking for fun, thus the Amiga still
appeals more to me.

  --Bill

daveh@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (09/25/86)

> Summary: Not a significant threat A different market niche
> 
> 	The GS is really aimed at the big group of Apple ][ users
> that are anxious for more power from the Apple, rather than
> desiring the features of the Amiga.  The main fix will be *finally*
> giving the Apple a decent address space to run modern programming.

Unfortunately for the machine, only new software will be able to use that
extra address space.  Of course, it could probably bank 64K chunks just
like a IIe, but that's defeating the purpose of the $8.00 65C816 chip.

> It sure has been blinking hard for me to write nice stuff because
> of the tiny 64K memory.  

Than again, all that stuff you guys squeeze into the 64K address space is
often highly optimized assembly (albeit optimized for size, not speed).
This thing should run about as fast as a 10-11 MHz 8088 based IBM PC;
give or take some depending on the actual task at hand.

> 	I forget the exact numbers, but the GS video display should
> be roughly equivalent to the Amiga hi-res noninterlaced display
> mode.  The apple, I think, offers more colors.  (The amiga has
> enough colors for me, thanks any way.)

All kinds of stories on this one.  They have a 4096 color palette, same as
the Amiga.  Though one source claims only 512 colors out of this palette
can ever be used together.  Out of that, they limit it to 16 colors per
scan line in an Amiga-Lo-Res equivalent mode, and 4 colors in an Amiga
Hi-Res, non-interlaced, equivalent mode.  How they switch via scan lines
I haven't heard; one rumor claims that each scan line can choose one of
sixteen (4 or 16 element) color sets, others claim that its an active
process, like what you'd have to do to make an Atari ST change colors per
scan line.  Guess we'll all know in a month or so.

> 	Given that the GS is not a quantum step, I don't think that
> it will terribly interest Atari, Amiga, and MAC owners.  The GS is
> also relatively expensive for what you get.  (Remember that Apple
> discounts aren't very good for consumers.)  For the cost of the
> Apple system box, I can buy an entire Amiga or ST.  Also Apple's
> attitude is that their computers should be treated more as
> appliances, rather than hacking for fun, thus the Amiga still
> appeals more to me.
> 
>   --Bill

Well, Apple's consistantly selling the same (or nearly same) class of
machine for several time what everyone (like CBM and Atari) sell theirs
for; Apple II series versus C64/C128 is a good example of this.  And 
of course the Amiga and ST drove down the Mac cost.  I wouldn't expect
them to come out at a reasonable price.  Hey, they've had some of the
best marketing in the business, and will probably continue.
-- 
============================================================================
Dave Haynie    {caip,ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!cbmvax!daveh

	These opinions are my own, though for a small fee they be yours too.