[net.games.board] Truly fair Rail Baron rules

doug@cornell.UUCP (12/03/85)

From: doug (Douglas Campbell)


<chug, chug>

Reading all the discussion about changing Rail Baron's rules to make it
fairer/better (e.g. the Seattle rules), I decided that the real problem
with the game is that some railroads are wildly overpriced, while some
are wildly underpriced.  Thus, there's a scramble at the beginning to
get the good deals, and if you have bad luck at the beginning, the whole
game is lost.

So, I decided to generate new railroad prices.  Here's how I did it:  I
used the computer to compute the odds of going to each city on the board.
Then, I assigned to each railroad points proportional to the probabilities
of each city it reaches divided by the number of railroads that reach that
city.  Then I normalized the prices so that they all add up to the amount
that they do under the current price scheme.  My results are below, sorted
by price:

 47,000	PA - Pennsylvania
 39,000	AT&SF - Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe
 38,000	SP - Southern Pacific
 31,000	NYC - New York Central
 30,000	UP - Union Pacific
 26,000	B&O - Baltimore & Ohio
 23,000	SAL - Seaboard Air Line
 23,000	L&N - Louisville & Nashville
 19,000	CRI&P - Chicago, Rock Island, & Pacific
 19,000	C&O - Chesapeake & Ohio
 16,000	NP - Northern Pacific
 16,000	B&M - Boston & Maine
 15,000	WP - Western Pacific
 15,000	SOU - Southern
 15,000	CMSTP&P - Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, & Pacific
 15,000	CB&Q - Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy
 15,000	C&NW - Chicago & NorthWestern
 14,000	NYNH&H - New York, New Haven, & Hartford
 14,000	GN - Great Northern
 13,000	ACL - Atlantic Coast Line
 12,000	SLSF - St. Louis - San Fransisco
 12,000	MP - Missouri Pacific
 10,000	N&W - Norfolk & Western
  9,000	T&P - Texas & Pacific
  8,000	IC - Illinois Central
  8,000	GM&O - Gulf, Mobile, & Ohio
  7,000	D&RGW - Denver & Rio Grande Western
  3,000	RF&P - Richmond, Fredericksburg, & Potomac

Comment 1:  This scheme of assigning prices does not take into account
the more general topologies of the rails.  Thus, even though the PA or
the NYC are required to reach Boston, all the points for Boston are
assigned to the B&M and the NYNH&H.

Comment 2:  The total of the above prices is only 512,000, not 514,000.
Big deal.

I'm looking forward to trying this out.  I'm about to run the pricing
algorithm on the Seattle rules and see what happens.  I have the
probability chart for cities if anyone wants it.

						Doug Campbell
						doug@cornell.{UUCP|ARPA}

srt@ucla-cs.UUCP (12/04/85)

I have the same comment about normalizing the prices of the railroads as
I do about the Seattle rules.  Why?  The thought that perfectly normalizing
the prices somehow makes the game better is erroneous.  Part of the fun of the
game is that some railroads are "deals" and some are "turkeys".

And, incidently, this doesn't even cure the ill of which was spoken,
in as much as it now becomes a scramble to see if you can get $47K to buy
the PA.  The point is that the value of the PA is that it gets you a lot
of cities, not that it happens to be underpriced.  Over the course of the
game the difference in price is moot.

                                                        -- Scott

jeff@hpcnoe.UUCP (12/06/85)

>                                        I decided that the real problem
>with the game is that some railroads are wildly overpriced, while some
>are wildly underpriced.

I disagree!  Sure there are railroads (like N&W) which seems overpriced
and others which seems underpriced (like D&RGW), but overall I think the
prices are fairly consistent.  Everyone has their own ideas of the good
buy railroads and bad buy railroads.  So if you play with the same group
all the time, you'll have a set of railroads which seems to be good buys
because they go quickly.  My personal preferences are:

    good				bad

    D&RGW				N&W
    PA					T&P
    SOU					C&NW
    MP					ACL
    WP					GN

I am kind of curious if other people have the same preferences (to disprove
my theory).  Send me (or post) your five favorite railroads and five
least favorite railroads.

>                                                Here's how I did it:  I
>used the computer to compute the odds of going to each city on the board.
>Then, I assigned to each railroad points proportional to the probabilities
>of each city it reaches divided by the number of railroads that reach that
>city.  

The problem with the above technique is that it ignores the length of the
railroad.  PA covers most of the money railroads.  But it lacks in length
which can take you accross the country.  The destinations also hurt much
less than some other areas because you can get close to it.  For example,
if you don't have anything in the West, going to Los Angeles is going to
cost.  If you don't have anything in the NE, going to New York might not
be too bad if you have SOU.

-- Jeff Wu
   ..ihnp4!hpfcla!j_wu

ccs020@ucdavis.UUCP (Kevin Chu) (12/06/85)

> I have the same comment about normalizing the prices of the railroads as
> I do about the Seattle rules.  Why?  The thought that perfectly normalizing
> the prices somehow makes the game better is erroneous.  Part of the fun of the
> game is that some railroads are "deals" and some are "turkeys".
> 
> And, incidently, this doesn't even cure the ill of which was spoken,
> in as much as it now becomes a scramble to see if you can get $47K to buy
> the PA.  The point is that the value of the PA is that it gets you a lot
> of cities, not that it happens to be underpriced.  Over the course of the
> game the difference in price is moot.
> 
>                                                         -- Scott

I couldn't agree more!  I never even saw the need to change the rules or
prices in the first place.  I like the game the way it is!  Also, if
you get used to playing with your customized rules, you'll have some
problems trying to play with anyone new, or at a gaming tournament.
Part of the game IS luck, so I don't see the rationalization "If you
get a bad roll at the beginning, you're out of the game" as being valid.
I have had good games with bad starts.  I have even won a game when all 
I had in the northeast was the C&O!.  Even if you can't win, you can
still have fun playing.
-- 
-- Kevin Chu
-- !{ucbvax,lll-crg,dual}!ucdavis!vega!ccs020
-- ucdavis!vega!ccs020@ucb-vax.arpa