[net.games.board] Game Recommendations Sought

andy@altos86.UUCP (Andy Hatcher) (02/22/86)

My friends and I are looking for a change and we hate to spend
money on games without knowing what they are like.  So, I am
soliciting opinions about board games that you may have played.

We have a very steady group of about 6 people, but games for any
number from 2 to 8 would be interesting.

We have played:
	Axies and Allies	(Allies always win)
	Conquest of the Empire	(Catapults are everything)
	AD&D			(Dungeon Masters are running out of ideas)
	Talisman		(Has become stale)
	Illuminati (w/expansion) (So so)
	Civilization		(Still good, but takes so long)
	Diplomacy		(Ditto)
	Junta			(We're not revolutionary enough, Pres. wins)
	Risk			(So much luck)

I would especially like to here about:
	Supremacy ($39.95 is it worth it)
	Dune

If anybody would like to here my opinions about the games above, just
let me know.
		Thanks,
			Andy Hatcher
			vecpyr!altos86!andy

== Insert Standard Disclaimer Here ==

wjm@teddy.UUCP (02/27/86)

In article <185@altos86.UUCP> andy@gateway.UUCP (Andy Hatcher) writes:
>
>My friends and I are looking for a change and we hate to spend
>money on games without knowing what they are like.  So, I am
>soliciting opinions about board games that you may have played.

I like 
	1829	(by the orginal designers of Civilization, it also
		 takes a long time, but it is worth it)
		Build railroad networks and companys in England

	Railway Rivals -- Draw a network and race from destination to
			  destination
	Empire Builder (3-6) -- Draw your railroad network and transport
				goods.
	Titan 	(long game) -- Monster mash
	Scrabble
	Rail Baron (3-6) -- Build a network of American railroads
	Aquire (3-6) -- Build up chains of hotels

(I assume from your list you are not interested in Military History games.)


						Enjoy
						bill masek

rtummers1@watrose.UUCP (Richard Tummers) (02/28/86)

> I would especially like to here about:
> 	Supremacy ($39.95 is it worth it)

A friend of mine here claims that supremacy is a very good game, and is
definitly worth it!  It's risk, so that non-gamers can actually comprehend it.
And it's improved, so that more skill is involved.

cs111olg@ucla-cs.UUCP (03/01/86)

Supremacy IS NOT WORTH $40!
At least that was the prevalent opinion of people at the ORCCON'86.
I have asked MANY people. MOST of them had shelled out $34-$40 for it.
($34 was the convention price). I thought to buy it as well, but 
finally was convinced it just was not worth it.

Now, don't take me wrong! The game is BEAUTIFUL! It is well produced,
looks wonderful and a lot of people are tempted to buy it just because
of the way it looks. Unfortunately, as most people had suggested, the
game is flawd. The rules need fixing up. People do that in different ways, 
but the fact stands : the rules are not well balanced and need fixing to
make the game truly playable. Still, too many drawbacks of RISK remain.
And, the major disadvantage is of course the price. $40 is too much for
any board game. If SUPREMACY was around $26 -- it would be reasonable.

As for good new games:

for RPG try a Super Hero game (any : Champions and V&V stand out)
	or    Spy Games (like 007 or Danger International)
	or a Science Fiction game (like RingWorld, Traveller, others)

for board games try :
	BORDERLANDS by Eon
	most games by SPI (now defunct, swallowed by TSR who discontinued 
		practically EVERYTHING SPI had. Bastards!)
	Empire Builder & British Rails
	wait till Xmass and buy HIGH RISK, a new game that combines the best
		of DIPLOMACY, BORDERLANDS, RISK and few others.

jeff@hpcnoe.UUCP (03/01/86)

| My friends and I are looking for a change and we hate to spend
| money on games without knowing what they are like.  So, I am
| soliciting opinions about board games that you may have played.
| 
| We have a very steady group of about 6 people, but games for any
| number from 2 to 8 would be interesting.

     I'd highly recommend the game Titan.  I wouldn't normally recommend
this game for  beginning  game  players, but from your list of games, it
looks like you won't be intimidated  by the  complexity.  We only played
the game with 2-4  players, so I don't know how the game works with more
5 or 6 players.

Titan (Avalon Hill, ~$16, at hobby stores)
Number of players: 2-6
Complexity: The instruction booklet is about 12 pages, the rules
	    are fairly consistent that after the first game or so,
	    you don't really need to refer to the rulebook at all.
Playing time: 2-12 hours (can turn into a marathon game sometimes)

     Titan is a monster  combat game.  Players own piles of monsters and
they move  these  piles  around  the board  recruiting  monsters  and/or
attacking other player's monster piles.  In one of the monster piles, is
the player's  titan.  If this titan character is killed, then the player
is eliminated.  The last one remaining in the game wins.

     The  board  contain  intertwining  hexes  with  different  terrains
(Jungle,  Brush, Plains, Marsh, Hills, Woods, Swamp, Desert,  Mountains,
Tundra).  The  movement  from each hex is  restricted,  so  unlike  many
wargames (like Risk) it is not important to hold a section of the board.
In each of the terrains,  there are  creatures  that can be recruited if
you  have  certain  creatures  in your  pile.  For  example,  two  lowly
centaurs  can recruit a lion in the plains.  The fun part of the game is
trying to recruit  higher and higher level  creatures.  There is a limit
of seven  characters  in each pile, so the piles gets split up into more
and more piles.

     When a pile  moves onto a terrain  occupied  by  another  player, a
battle occurs.  This is where the higher level  creatures pay off.  They
are  likely to have  more hit  points,  hit  harder,  move  faster,  can
rangestrike,  or can  fly.  The  battle  is  resolved  in a  battlefield
pertaining  to the terrain.  Each  battlefield  has hazards which hinder
some  creatures and give advantage to other  creatures.  For example, in
the  woods,  there are  trees,  which  gives  the  flying  creatures  an
advantage  since  they can fly over them.  The  battles  are like a game
within  the larger  game.  They can be thought of as a chess  match with
fewer (and different assortment of pieces).

     The  winner of the battle  (there  has to be a loser)  gets  points
which strengthen the titan.

     With matched experienced players, we find that the game tends to be
long.  One thing we do to alleviate the long playing time is to save the
game on paper.  I can mail these forms to anyone who is  interested.  We
now can finish the game in 3-4 sittings of ~3 hours each.  Other aids we
use are small dice (we have 10 which is more than  adequate)  which mark
the  number  of hit  points  left on the  creature  instead  of the chit
markers.  They tend to more  convinient than the chit markers.  Also get
about 6 more  regular  dice  (for  total of ten),  this  covers  all the
creatures with at most two throws (also it gives more  satisifaction  to
throw a lot of dice  when you have a  higher  level  creature  such as a
serpent).


-- Jeff Wu 
   ..{ihnp4|hplabs}!hpfcla!j_wu

ccrrick@deneb.UUCP (03/01/86)

> We have a very steady group of about 6 people, but games for any
> number from 2 to 8 would be interesting.
> 
> We have played:
> 	Axies and Allies	(Allies always win)
> 	Conquest of the Empire	(Catapults are everything)
> 	AD&D			(Dungeon Masters are running out of ideas)
> 	Talisman		(Has become stale)
> 	Illuminati (w/expansion) (So so)
> 	Civilization		(Still good, but takes so long)
> 	Diplomacy		(Ditto)
> 	Junta			(We're not revolutionary enough, Pres. wins)
> 	Risk			(So much luck)
> 
> I would especially like to here about:
> 	Supremacy ($39.95 is it worth it)
> 	Dune

This group does not have heavy posting and other people might also
be interested.  Dune is a wonderful game and very much in line with
the game list you gave (see above).  You play one of 6 characters:
Emperor, Harkonnen, Atreides, Fremen, Guild or Bene Gesserit (I have
designed a variant which adds 2 more players that I could send you
if you're interested).

The game is, of course, based on the Frank Herbert novel.  Herbert
didn't like the game because it is based on the novel so loosely, but
as a GAME, it is VERY good.  (Books should be read, games should be
played.)  The idea is to take control of the planet Dune.  Each player
has unique powers a la Illuminati (or Cosmic Encounter (another
wonderful game if you have the money)) and 5 leaders who depict
characters in the book.  The game includes 2 combat wheels, a deck
for spice blows and a deck for treachery cards.  There are rules for
traitors and alliances.  This is a game that tends to reward good
planning, but the surprise element crops up frequently enough to
keep it interesting.  Also, there are no dice.

Another good thing is that when you get bored after 18 months or so,
you can go out and get the Spice Harvest Expansion Set and it becomes
almost a new game.

I can expound further if you wish...

Other games you might like:

Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire (just what it says for 4 players)*
Nuclear War/Escalation             (don't be turned off by the title; for 2-6)
Crusades			   (the 1st & 3rd Crusades; for 2 or 4-8)*
Empires of the Middle Ages         (Medieval Europe 2-6 (3 very good))*
Spies                              (pre-WW II spies in Europe)
Sword and the Stars                (same as EMA above except in outer space)*
Elric                              (from books of Moorcock - for 1-4)

There may some difficulty (those marked with asterisks) in finding
some of these because either the game is only published in England
or the company which published it is defunct.  

kalpin@utecfc.UUCP (Jordan E Kalpin) (03/02/86)

In article <185@altos86.UUCP> andy@gateway.UUCP (Andy Hatcher) writes:
>
>My friends and I are looking for a change and we hate to spend
>money on games without knowing what they are like.  So, I am
>soliciting opinions about board games that you may have played.
>
>We have a very steady group of about 6 people, but games for any
>number from 2 to 8 would be interesting.
>
>We have played:
>	Axies and Allies	(Allies always win)
>	Conquest of the Empire	(Catapults are everything)
>	AD&D			(Dungeon Masters are running out of ideas)
>	Talisman		(Has become stale)
>	Illuminati (w/expansion) (So so)
>	Civilization		(Still good, but takes so long)
>	Diplomacy		(Ditto)
>	Junta			(We're not revolutionary enough, Pres. wins)
>	Risk			(So much luck)
>
>I would especially like to here about:
>	Supremacy ($39.95 is it worth it)
>	Dune
>
>If anybody would like to here my opinions about the games above, just
>let me know.
>		Thanks,
>			Andy Hatcher
>			vecpyr!altos86!andy
>

I have played DUNE hundreds of times over the last 5 years.  I find the game 
very enjoyable but then again I am familiar with Frank Herbert's series of
books called DUNE.  I am not suggesting that people who haven't read the series
will not enjoy DUNE, but I think they will not get the flavour of the game.   
With that in mind, the game is super.  Each persons plays a character from the
original story (Paul Attriedies, The baron Harkonen, Bene Gesserit, etc.) and
as such each player has a set of unique abilities in the game.  The object of
the game is to catch 3 strongholds on the DUNE planet map.  To do so you must
battle worms, storms and other players while at the same time you must   
harvest spice to finance all of this death and destruction.  If you liked the
books, this game is a must!

As far as other games go, I would like to mention a very underrated game that I
have been playing for a number of years.  The game is called BORDERLANDS and it
was originally put out by EON GAMES (of Cosmic Encounter) but now that EON
is owned by WESTEND GAMES, I am not sure where you may get it or its 2    
expansion sets.  Anywho, the game much resembles risk, but it is much more
intelligent.  Rather than just attacking each other, the game has a certain
number of random sites which produce raw materials such as wood, iron, coal,
gold and horses.  Since there are few production sites available, players 
must trade goods to get the ones they don't have.  The reason you do this is 
because iron + coal makes a weapon, or gold + gold makes a weapon.  Wood +Wood
makes a river boat (use it for surprise attacks on friends down the river).
In other words, you must trade to get more powerful and in fact win by being
the first player to develop 3 cities (4 gold or timber + iron + coal?).
Sometimes it is just easier to attack and capture a production site.
Also, all battles usually envolve players allying to win, and this usually
adds fun to any game (i.e. trade goods for alliance etc.).  I like the game
because it has all the things that I feel are lacking from RISK and more!
Expansion sets add bridges, islands, ocean ships and extra production sites.
Buy it...you'll love it!!!

Jordan Kalpin
University of Toronto
Mechanical Engineering

kalpin@utecfc.UUCP

 

cs111olg@ucla-cs.UUCP (03/09/86)

In article <37800031@hpcnoe.UUCP> jeff@hpcnoe.UUCP writes:
>     I'd highly recommend the game Titan.  I wouldn't normally recommend
>this game for  beginning  game  players, but from your list of games, it
>looks like you won't be intimidated  by the  complexity.  We only played
>the game with 2-4  players, so I don't know how the game works with more
>5 or 6 players.

We usually play with 4 or more players. Games take up to 16 hours
(when everybody falls asleep and can't care less who won)....
It became something of a joke: "Anyone for a QUICK game of Titan?" :-)
				
				Oleg Kiselev

franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) (03/10/86)

[Not food]

Titan works fairly well with 5 or 6 players, but there are some problems.
Mostly, the game gets longer.  Instead of 2 to 12 hours, you should figure
4 to 20.

The other real problem is that it tends to be a long time between turns.
One can get bored waiting for the other players to finish, particularly
if they make attacks against each other, but not against you.

Both of these problems are ameliorated if people play quickly.

Frank Adams                           ihnp4!philabs!pwa-b!mmintl!franka
Multimate International    52 Oakland Ave North    E. Hartford, CT 06108

marms@sandia.UUCP (03/11/86)

#include "line-eater fodder"

Andy Hatcher asked for recommendations of great games to play. I MUST
recommend the "classic" game of COSMIC ENCOUNTERS by Eon Products.
The basic set of CE runs for about $20, and there are 9 expansion
sets to date running at $6 each. Yes, I know that this adds up to
be a very expensive game, but not all expansion sets are needed
(some like the moons are even worthless). You can slowly add on to
the game as you play and want more variety and weirdness. The game
plays best with 4 players and can be played in 1 hour easily. It can 
accomodate up to 6 players, but the games tend to take an incredibly
long time to finish (between 3-4 hours) and become very chaotic.
You can also play with 2 or 3 players, but usually one player will
easily overpower the other(s). So play with 4 whenever possible.

In the game, each player draws or chooses an alien race and sets
up in his home system of 5 planets. The goal of the game is to
establish bases on 5 planets external to your starting system.
The first player(s) to do that win. Thus more than one player may win,
although we generally frown upon that as a turkey-win unless the
two have no chance to win on their own (underpowered usually).
Most of the expansion sets introduce another set of 10-15 aliens,
so the varieties of combinations of aliens in the game is almost
always different. Each alien has a power that allows the player
to bend (or break) the rules. And the interaction of players' powers
is always fun to see.

I can't recommend this game enough. To paraphrase Moriarty in net.comics:
   "Why the %#$@! aren't you playing this?!  Buy it or I'll tell
   everyone that your mother swims after troopships!".
A couple of years ago we had a group at work that would get together
to play it at lunch instead of Hearts or Spades. In the course of
the months while I stayed there, we played over 200 games of CE!!!
Yes, the game can easily be played in an hour! And Yes, the game
is fun over and over again due to the variety of powers and other
weirdness! Get this game and the first 3 expansions sets. You won't
be dissappointed!

Mike Arms
Sandia National Labs
Albuquerque, NM 87185
uucp:  ...{ucbvax | ihnp4!lanl | gatech}!unmvax!sandia!marms

reiher@ucla-cs.UUCP (03/17/86)

While "Cosmic Encounters" is generally a fun game, there are a few things
that should be said about it.  Primarily, don't play it with people who are
argumentative, especially if you are using lots of the expansion sets.  Some
of the powers have subtle complexities on their interactions, some of which
are not really covered in the rules.  When these conflicts pop up, arguments
can become heated.  It helps if some mechanism for solving problems is agreed
upon beforehand, such as voting or random choice.

Also, when playing with others for the first time, be sure that you pin down
whether they are playing exactly according to the rules or whether they
have house rules.  CE seems particularly susceptable to the creation of
house rules, and discovery that everyone but you knew about them and
assumed that they would be followed (while you had assumed standard rules,
or even your own favorite house rules) can lead to more arguments.
-- 
        			Peter Reiher
				reiher@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU
        			{...ihnp4,ucbvax,sdcrdcf}!ucla-cs!reiher

rec@cosivax.UUCP (Rick Cobb) (03/19/86)

Have to agree that Cosmic  is one of the great board games.
However, you need to be aware of two things:

[1]	Don't try to learn it with the expansion sets first (well, maybe
	only two or three....)  It gets *very* chaotic after that.

[2]	This is a game of ``rule-based cheating.''  The basic idea is
	essentially the card game War; everything else is some way
	of breaking or abusing or bending or confusing some
	of the rules.  Rules lawyers can be a big pain, but if
	I remember right, there's a flare in expansion set 5 that
	deals with them....

I have to disagree with the statement that the moons are worthless;
our group considers them essential to the good humor of the game.  

In addition, Eon has just repackaged the game; as I understand it, the
initial set has the first two expansion sets (which
bring the game up from four players to six) into the basic box,
and reduced the number of expansion sets to four, which combine the other
seven of the original game.

silber@uiucdcsp.CS.UIUC.EDU (03/21/86)

Another good, simple and enjoyable multi-player game is STELLAR CONQUEST
by Avalon Hill (but originally by someone else).  It is a four player
game of interstellar colonization and warfare.  What makes it interesting
is that a) ships in flight must have a destination, which can only
be changed at star systems, leading to a need to plan ahead. and b)
hidden movement and properties.  You can tell where an opponent has ships,
but not what they are.  You can tell where he has a command post, but
not where other colonies are.  To find out his strengths, and the 
ability of star systems to support life, you must send ships to
reconoiter.  The production system is quite clean and good.
One advantage the game seems to have is that there is no "one way" to
win.  One can do well by producing lots of low tech stuff, or spending
money on development, including forcefields to make planets immune etc.
My two bits of advice on strategy are 
1) for your initial buy, purchase as many colonists as possible and put
them on the first Terran type planet you find, otherwise you will never
have enough people.
2) buy CET (controlled environment technology) as soon as possible so
that you can use the excess people generated by the colonies to settle
on otherwise inhospitable but mineral rich worlds.

The game can be learned within an half hour or so, and play takes about an
evening between reasonably experienced players.

				Ami Silberman
"An erect man may expose himself in an aperture..."