jordan@greipa.UUCP (The Moderator) (07/29/85)
Guns Digest Mon Jul 29 11:28:32 PDT Digest 1:3
Topics:
Replies to digest 1:1 articles by kontron!cramer
Long term storage of ammo and firearms
The AMT .45.
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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 85 10:18:41 pdt
From: pesnta!pesnta!pertec!kontron!cramer
Subject: Re: Gun Digest 1:1
I hope this is the right way to respond to an item; if not, let me know.
I've never participated in a moderated discussion before.
[ This is fine, though I've trimmed some of the included
text from the 1:1 articles. - jh]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: ihnp4!tektronix!carlc
> Date: Monday, 8 Jul 85 11:10:57 PDT
> Subject: request for .45 discussion
>
> I'd like to see a discussion of .45 semi-automatic pistols. I recall
> hearing that there are several varieties as well as several kinds
> of ammunition. I'd always thought that the main choice one had in
> a .45 was blue steel vs. nickel-plated; apparently I was wrong.
>
> -- Carl
>
Besides Colt, there are the following companies building either Model 1911A1
.45 automatics, or close copies:
1. AMT (Arcadia Machine & Tool) (stainless steel)
2. Auto-Ordnance (the makers of the Thompson)
3. Llama (a Spanish company)
4. Springfield Armory (a private company --- not the government arsenal)
I'm sure there are others.
Colt sells lots of variations of the .45 automatic.
1. 5" barrel, just like the Model 1911A1 used by the government, except that
there is a firing pin block attached to the thumb safety. This model is
available in blued steel, bright nickel (which I think is beautiful, in a
garish sort of way, although a little visible for self-defense), satin
nickel (which I also think is beautiful, and I'm told is much more durable
than blue or bright nickel), and a stainless steel model (which is much
more attractive than a lot of other stainless steel guns I've seen).
2. 4.25" barrel, Commander model, much like the 5" barrel Government Model
above, except shorter and a little lighter. It's available in all the
variations above except for stainless steel.
3. 3.5" (?) barrel, Colt Officer's ACP model, a bit smaller and lighter
still than the Commander model, with a shorter butt than the Commander
and Government Models. (This makes it a little easier to carry concealed
on your waist or in a shoulder holster.) At the moment this model is
only available in a dark, non-reflective finish (manganese dioxide, I
think). It is supposed to be available soon in stainless steel.
To my knowledge, none of the .45 automatic copies have the firing pin
block that all the new Colts have. This, to me, is a powerful argument
for the Colt versions. For competition shooters, the firing pin block
is apparently less desireable because it makes work on cleaning up the
trigger pull more difficult. For a brief while, there was actually a
premium price on the wholesale market for the older, Series 70 Colts
without the firing pin block. (Sure wish I had gone ahead and sold mine
at the time.)
> ---------------
>
> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 85 15:25:11 edt
> From: Alan Roberts <ihnp4!decvax!mcnc!rti-sel!amr>
> Subject: In Search of the Perfect Automatic . . .
>
> I am a handgun owner who has only used revolvers in the past, but am now
> considering the purchase of a semi-automatic pistol. Does anyone in the
> group have advice/suggestions for a first-time semi-auto purchase?
> Incredible accuracy is not needed, since I don't really plan on competing,
> but I do want reasonable performance from the gun with no customization.
> I am looking for a pistol which is very durable, and can be easily
> maintained. Cost of ammunition is also a factor.
>
> 1. Beretta (sp?) P2SP 9mm, which I have been told has finally
> been approved as the U.S. military's new sidearm.
> I understand this pistol performed very well in the
> military testing, and would expect ammunition to
> be inexpensively available soon if not already,
> for the careful shopper (I can drive to the Fort
> Bragg area to shop). On the other hand, the cost
> for the pistol itself seems pretty high. [ But worth it, - jh]
>
>
> 2. Colt .45. The main advantage I see (or perhaps just
> imagine) here is that the cost for the pistol should
> be better, given the numbers manufactured for the
> government. Is, or will there be, a significant
> surplus sale of this weapon when the changeover
> to the Beretta occurs? How about the used market?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alan Roberts
> Research Triangle Institute
> (decvax!mcnc!rti-sel!amr)
I can strongly recommend the Colt .45. Accuracy right out of the box
was adequate for a defensive weapon (I don't expect to ever shoot at
anyone more than 50 feet away with a handgun). It has been *extremely*
reliable when firing full metal cased ammunition, and *extremely*
reliable with most hollow point brands. (The one exception: Winchester
Silvertips). In fact, once I got past the first few hundred rounds
of "break in", I only experienced three failures out of six hundred
or more rounds (with new ammunition), and two of those were with the
aforementioned Winchester Silvertips.
Maintenance of the Colt is very easy; I would recommend either the
satin nickel or stainless steel models, however, since blued steel
doesn't seem to resist nicks and corrosion at all, and Southern
California is not one of the more demanding environments.
> ---------------
>
> Date: Thu Jul 11 18:13:49 PDT 1985
> From: Jordan Hubbard <The Moderator>
> Subject: AM(P? T?) Hardballer .45 . . . advice?
>
> I've recently acquired a yen for a .45 that shoots with a little more
> accuracy than my Combat Commander and was looking fondly at the Colt
> Gold Cup as my next purchase. However, a friend a gun store suggested
> a stainless steel auto called 'the hardballer' (suggestive, isn't it?)
> or the hardballer longslide for even tighter groups. I believe both were
> made by AMT.
> The price is certainly right, and AMT has put out some fairly decent backup
> autos if they're to be of any gauge..
>
> Has anyone had any experience with this weapon? Any particular horror
> stories about AMT? I'm a Colt man myself, I've never owned anything made
> by them.. Gold cup's nice, but $$$...
>
> BTW, the price I was quoted on the AMT was $315.00, new.
>
> - Jordan
>
AMT is the maker. I have an AMT Backup in .22LR. It's a neat pistol, I
have great confidence in its accuracy and reliability, but I wouldn't
buy another, and I doubt I would buy anything else from AMT. Let me
tell you what happened.
For starters, the AMT Backup is extremely difficult to strip for cleaning.
You have to pound a pin out of the gun, then tap out another part, and
the amount of force required is kind of scary. In addition, when I first
bought the gun, I couldn't get the first pin to come out at all! Since
AMT is just up the freeway from me, this wasn't really a big problem.
(BTW, they aren't listed in the phone book, so I just drove up there and
took my chances they could help me.) They took my Backup into the back
room, and when it was returned, I was told that the *wrong pin* had been
installed at the factory. It's still a nuisance to clean, but at least
I can take it apart.
-------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 85 13:53:56 pdt
From: dual!idi!oliveb!olivee!gnome
Subject: mod.firearms
(*)
I'd like to know if anyone out there has definitive information
on long-term storage of ammo and/or firearms.
In specific -
1) What is the shelf life of optimally stored ammo?
2) What is the optimal environment?
3) Is there such a thing as long-term spring degradation
in automatics? Especially in the hammer spring and slide-
return spring?
I hope someone out there has already looked into these questions.
Thanks in advance.
Gary
(hplabs,idi,ihnp4,allegra)oliveb!olivee!gnome
------------------------------
Date: Mon Jul 29 11:41:11 PDT 1985
From: jordan@greipa.UUCP (the moderator)
Subject: AMT and their .45's
Well, several people (including a few gun store owners) have informed me
that buying an AMT .45 would be a mistake. Several owners have stated
that the guns have grave ejection problems and that stovepipes are the
rule, rather than the exception. There is also the negative review given
by kontron!cramer at the beginning of this digest to consider.
My thanks to those who replied. You have probably kept me from making
an expensive mistake..
I recently saw an ad for a 1911 .45 reprod by Springfield Arms (also
mentioned by kontron!cramer). It sold for the low price of $249.. I'd like
to know if this is another cheap turkey or something worth looking into.
I've heard pretty good things about Springfield so far.
************************
End of Digest 1:3
--
Jordan K. Hubbard
@ Genstar Rental Electronics.
Palo Alto, CA.
{pesnta, decwrl, dual, pyramid}!greipa!jordan
"ack pfffft. gag. retch. barf.. ack"
- Bill again.