jkh@jade.UUCP (06/06/86)
Article: 6:4
I am on the verge of purchasing my first handgun and I need
some advice. The models which seem the most appealing are the
Colt and S&W .45 automatics, and the Browning and Beritta 9mm
autos. Some of the information I am looking for includes:
1) quality of handguns- (tendencies to jam, quality of
workmanship, ease of operation)
2) relative performance between the .45 and 9mm
calibers
3) pricing and future value-(i.e. is the Browning worth the price?)
4) cost and availability of ammo for these guns
In the interest of avoiding another "The .45 will blow off an
arm" debate, I ask that the more emotionally enthusiastic
owners of these guns try to keep a more objective view, but I
would like some help in choosing what might be a family
heirloom. Any advice in this area would be greatly
appreciated.
David Fanninjkh@jade.UUCP (06/10/86)
Article: 6:6 The .45 is a more powerful slug because of its size. However you have to take into consideration the target. Flesh and blood and or paper are no general match for either. Its been my experience that the knocks on the 9 mm come from the stories from the Mau Mau and from the relationship of the 9 mm to the Luger. The Luger was a precision instrument that tended to jam if not perfectly maintained. The .45 generally comes in a workhorse slug like the military auto. From shooting both, I strongly feel that the quality and shootability and feel of the weapon outweigh the cartridge. Availability of both is good with a slight edge in cost if reloaded to the .45. Now that the military is going 9 mm, the cost will probably slide the other way soon. When picking nits, the 9 has the edge in weight and feel, the .45 in power.
jkh@jade.UUCP (06/10/86)
Article: 6:9 RE:9mm vs 45 Ideally, you should shoot all of the guns that you have under consideration and see which feels best. The stopping power debate will never end. I suggest that you read *Hatcher's Notebook* in that regard. You might also take a good look at the HK P7-M8. For carrying, it is very close to the ideal 9mm Pb, especially with Glaser Safety Slugs for ammunition. It all depends on what you expect to be using the pistol for. I personally think that the Browning P-35 and Beretta 92 are too big for carrying, although they are nice military sidearms. The new Gloob pistol may be of interest, but I haven't seen a sample or shot one. If you choose the .45 caliber, the Colt Commander ( aluminum frame ) is decent for a carrying gun. Jon Kaplowitz ihnp4!erc3ba!jfka
jkh@jade.UUCP (06/10/86)
Article: 6:10 > I am on the verge of purchasing my first handgun and I need > some advice. The models which seem the most appealing are the > Colt and S&W .45 automatics, and the Browning and Beritta 9mm > autos. Some of the information I am looking for includes: > > 1) quality of handguns- (tendencies to jam, quality of > workmanship, ease of operation) I have no experience with the S&W, Browning, or Beretta large autos. I have a Colt .45 auto -- and I have been completely happy with it. With factory hardball ammo I have had about three failures in almost a thousand rounds -- and two were when the gun was quite new. I find it very easy to fire, as does my wife (and we both qualify as wimps). >From what I have seen of people firing a variety of 9mm pistols, I think either the Colt is easy to fire well, or the .45 ACP cartridge is instrinically more accurate. The Colt has a grip safety -- the others don't. That makes the argument for me real easy. > 2) relative performance between the .45 and 9mm > calibers I read recently of a California policeman who had a confrontation with a guy on PCP. It took three shots in the the face with a .45 to make the guy undangerous. There seems to be general agreement that the 9mm is a less effective cartridge than .45 ACP. You really want something less effective? > 3) pricing and future value-(i.e. is the Browning worth the price?) I don't know what retail is like -- I'm a dealer and buy everything at wholesale. At wholesale, the Colt .45 is cheaper by about $30 than the Browning Hi-Power, and the Beretta 92 adopted by the U.S. Army is about $10 cheaper. The Colt is available with a wider selection of finishes (stainless steel, satin nickel, blued steel, brightly polished nickel, brightly polished stainless steel) than the others. > 4) cost and availability of ammo for these guns > .45 ACP ammunition is about 10-15% more expensive at my prices than 9mm. I consider it well worth it. > David Fannin Clayton E. Cramer
jkh@jade.UUCP (06/17/86)
Article: 6:15 In article <807@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> Clayton Cramer writes: >Article: 6:10 > >> I am on the verge of purchasing my first handgun and I need >> some advice. The models which seem the most appealing are the >> Colt and S&W .45 automatics, and the Browning and Beritta 9mm >> autos. Some of the information I am looking for includes: ... discussion deleted... > >I have no experience with the S&W, Browning, or Beretta large autos. >I have a Colt .45 auto -- and I have been completely happy with it. >With factory hardball ammo I have had about three failures in almost >a thousand rounds -- and two were when the gun was quite new. I find >it very easy to fire, as does my wife (and we both qualify as wimps). >>From what I have seen of people firing a variety of 9mm pistols, I >think either the Colt is easy to fire well, or the .45 ACP cartridge >is instrinically more accurate. > >The Colt has a grip safety -- the others don't. That makes the argument >for me real easy. I think it only fair to mention that there is some disagreement on grip safties. Certain people find that the Colt grip safety doesn't always allow the gun to fire, a fatal (literally) flaw in a self defense weapon, and a sure way to lose points in a rapid fire match. Grip safties which are either full length on the back of the grip, or at the bottom of the front below the trigger guard are a bit more reliable. A number of gunsmiths can either disable the grip safety, or extend it to a full length safety. This is a personal choice, but since the original posting was asking for advice I want to be sure that he knows there is a choice to make. I consider the safety on my "380 Backup" to be ideal (I'm not claiming the rest of the gun is, just the safety). -bill davidsen ihnp4!seismo!rochester!steinmetz!--\ \ unirot ------------->---> crdos1!davidsen chinet ------/ sixhub ---------------------/ (davidsen@ge-crd.ARPA) "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward"
jkh@jade.UUCP (06/21/86)
Article: 6:19
Having been in the service I've had to carry a 45 on several (many)
occasions. I recently fired the new Beretta 92F at a local range.
When I save up enough, I'll probably get one. It was more comfortable
than a .45 and an enjoyable weapon to "plink" with. It would also
be I'm sure a very good choice for "personal protection"
Find a range/shop that allows you to test fire before you buy.
good shooting. Ed.