jkh@jade.BERKELEY.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard) (09/17/86)
Article: 9:22
Not that I have anything against flashlights, (I have a Mini-Mag on
my side at all times, and a 6-D Cell Mag at home), but on with the
topic of guns....
I am in the market for a shotgun, and since I have never purchased a
gun before, I would greatly appreciate any wisdom/first-hand experience
that anyone can offer. (I've shot quite a few guns, from a .410 single
barrel to an automatic AR-15, so I am not quite a novice shooter.)
First what I want the gun for, not necessarily in order of
importance. Home protection, hunting (both varmint and small game),
recreational target type shooting, and JUST BECAUSE I WANT ONE!
Now for what I consider important, again, not necessarily in order
of importance.
Shotgun should:
1) Be easy to use. My wife will have occasion to fire it,
both because I will drag her out and make her get used to it,
and God forbid in the case of an emergency, she should know
to how to load and handle it.
2) Be moderately inexpensive, (cheap?), yet reliable. Until I
become familiar with all the nuances involved in proper gun
handling and care, I would prefer to possibly ruin a less
expensive model.
3) Be relatively easy to 'break-down' for repair and cleaning.
The last time I had occasion to tear-down a gun was my M-16
when I was in the service. I'd prefer a somewhat simple
and straight foreward model so I would be less likely to
avoid cleaning it because of the chore involved.
Ok, there's what I think I want, now for some questions.
1) What choke should I get? Or, should I get one of the newer
models that have inter-changeable barrels? (I think my wife
would be somewhat reluctant to fire the gun after the full-
choke knocked her on her ass the first shot!!! That is
if my assumption that choke type is directly related to
amount of kick-back.)
2) Is a .12 guage the best gun for what I think I will be using
it for? I have spoken to people that say I would be better
off buying a 30-06 or similar rifle, (one of whom was a
gun salesman showing me a $250 shotgun and a $700 30-06!!)
3) Is a double-barrel a good idea? I decided on it because of
it seems more reliable. Put a shell in each barrel, close
gun and fire.
4) If the answer to 3) is yes, am I better off with an
over-and-under or a side-by-side? From what I have seen,
the side-by-side is somewhat cheaper. Is there any reason
for this?
5) There's a gun shop less than a mile from my new home.
I was wonderng if it would be sensible to buy from
that delear even if I could do better, price-wise, somewhere
else. Is there a great difference in pricing among dealers?
Are there any pointers for dealing with gun dealers?
6) Are there any caveats for buying a used gun? I just bought
a new house in what seems to be hunting country, and as
such, used guns are as common as used pickups! Do I ask for
a test shoot before buying? Should I kick the stock? Or
is a used gun usually a 'blind purchase'?
I plan on making the purchase in the next month, so any advice
would be greatly appreciated. If there are any items I have neglected,
(and I assume there will be many), please feel free to enlighten me.
I've asked quite a few questions here, so if people prefer, e-mail
instead of posting, and I will summarize if there's interest.
Thanks in advance,
Marty Walsh
Systems Programmer
City University of New York
(212) 903-3655jkh@jade.BERKELEY.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard) (09/19/86)
In-Reply-To: your article <1287@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> Article: 9:27 In the shotgun department, I would suggest the Remington 1100 Sportsman. It has a birchwood stock instead of a walnut stock. Best Company, the catalog store, is selling them for about $260. It's not that the 1100 is the best shotgun, but it is the most popular auto. Parts and service are easy to come by. For home protection, I'd get the plain, 20" barrel and a Choate magazine extension. For sport, I'd get an appropriate vented barrel. A nice thing about gas-action autoloading shotguns is the reduced recoil. This will be appreciated by your wife. Regarding buying used guns, it's like buying a used car. If you know what you are doing and know how to fix a particular model, then you can do well. If you don't know what to look for in the way of defective or incorrect parts, you might get into trouble. Also, in case you haven't noticed, THE time to buy guns is during the last week in August and the first week in September. Woolworth's (YES, WOOLWORTH'S) sells its guns at almost dealer cost and K-Mart has its big sales at this time. You've just missed the best sales of the year. The next best time is after hunting season. This will depend on your locale. Usually guns sales are VERY slow in January. That might be a good time to shop around. Jon Kaplowitz ihnp4!erc3ba!jfka
jkh@jade.BERKELEY.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard) (09/19/86)
In-Reply-To: <1287@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> Article: 9:30 My opinion for the best gun as you describe its use is a 20 gauge semi- automatic shotgun. I recommend you get it with two barrels. The first one an improved cylinder for upland bird, clay targets, slugs for deer and home defense. By the way you will get a lot of argument on the use of a shotgun for home defense. The other barrel should, in my opinion, be a full choke for varmints and, if you so choose, waterfowl. The 20 gauge is my favorite all around shotgun and my favorite model is a Remington 1100 (you'll also get a lot of argument on this). There are other good guns on the market. A pump such as the Reminmgton 870 is also good. I recommend the semi-auto since you say your wife will also shoot it and the semi-auto has a lot less recoil as compared to a pump or double in the same gauge. The 20 gauge semi-auto is a pussy cat. You can shoot loads from 3/4oz to 1-1/2oz in the 20 gauge so it is versatile. This is not a commercial for Remington. I have several of their guns and have had good luck with all of them. There are other good guns in the price range you have indicated. Eg, Mossberg, Winchester, Ithaca and some foreign brand names. Hope this helps. Mark O'Shea
jkh@jade.BERKELEY.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard) (10/10/86)
Article: 10:1
I hope this can get to the poster, as there was no other path.
On Shotguns (one of my favorite subjects).
Twelve gauge is the most popular, and the best all around.
Double barrels are inherently more reliable, but have less
fire power (two shells versius 3-8 shells in a pump or auto).
Of double barrels I prefer over/unders, easier to point (they
have a better sighting plane), but this may be personal pref.
Choke has very little to do with recoil (if anything). If you
want less recoil get an autoloader, that's what my wife uses.
Many guns now come with choke tubes, interchangeable inserts
that fit into the end of the barrel (winchoke, browning invector).
Chokes:
purpose single double
Protection imp cyl imp cyl/mod
small birds mod imp cyl/mod
small game mod mod/full
waterfowl full mod/full
(these are of course my opinions)
Good luck, and have fun!
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v Pete Bellas "When it is not necessary to make a decision, v
^ Citicorp TTI it is necessary to not make a decision." ^
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\<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>/jkh@jade.BERKELEY.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard) (10/10/86)
Article: 10:2 In article <1287@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> you write: >Article: 9:22 > I can't recommend a shotgun, because all I have used is my Remington 860 (full choke) and a semi-automatic skeet gun. > > 1) What choke should I get? Or, should I get one of the newer > models that have inter-changeable barrels? (I think my wife > would be somewhat reluctant to fire the gun after the full- > choke knocked her on her ass the first shot!!! That is > if my assumption that choke type is directly related to > amount of kick-back.) First of all, you should teach your wife the proper stance when shooting a gun, or have her taught through skeet classes or trap. There is a champion skeet shooter who weights 90 pounds and shoot 12 gauge with no problems. Second, it all depends on what you want to do with the gun. since you want a home protection gun, I would suggest you get what they call a "riot gun". They call it this because police use them for riots. They are light, short barrel (just legal limit), cheep and can shoot 12 gauge effectively. I don't know if it is versatile enough to have different barrels. If you want to shoot trap or skeet, it would be a good idea to get a gun which has the ability to change barrels. > > 2) Is a .12 guage the best gun for what I think I will be using > it for? I have spoken to people that say I would be better > off buying a 30-06 or similar rifle, (one of whom was a > gun salesman showing me a $250 shotgun and a $700 30-06!!) > The riot gun I talked about above is 12 guage, and cheep for home protection. The people you are talking to are probably more concerned with stopping power. If you want to kill an intruder quickly, buy a machine gun. > 3) Is a double-barrel a good idea? I decided on it because of > it seems more reliable. Put a shell in each barrel, close > gun and fire. > > 4) If the answer to 3) is yes, am I better off with an > over-and-under or a side-by-side? From what I have seen, > the side-by-side is somewhat cheaper. Is there any reason > for this? If you get a double barrel, buy over-under. It is easier to sight with only one barrel than with two. Skeet shooters use over-under combinations effectively, but I don't think you will need one for home protection. Just get the riot gun with pump action (gas action is expensive) and it can hold 4 shells in total (BY LAW). > > 5) There's a gun shop less than a mile from my new home. > I was wonderng if it would be sensible to buy from > that delear even if I could do better, price-wise, somewhere > else. Is there a great difference in pricing among dealers? > Are there any pointers for dealing with gun dealers? Remember that all dealers are salesmen. If you can become friends with one, he might not try to gouge you, and he might try harder to give you what you really want/need, not what he really wants to sell. > > 6) Are there any caveats for buying a used gun? I just bought > a new house in what seems to be hunting country, and as > such, used guns are as common as used pickups! Do I ask for > a test shoot before buying? Should I kick the stock? Or > is a used gun usually a 'blind purchase'? Have the gun checked by a gun smith or dealer, just like you would have a mechanic check the used pickup. Hope this helps, but keep one thing in mind, I am not an expert. One last thing I can suggest is that you get your wife to take basic gun training at the local police range. They usually have classes. And like I said, skeet classes are real good for learning the proper way to shoot a shotgun. Brian Keves ARPA: keves%ra@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu Lab for Math and Stats UUCP: sdcsvax!ra!keves UCSD, La Jolla, CA PHONE: 619-450-6421 Any opinions expressed are my own and are not the opinions of my employer.
jkh@jade.BERKELEY.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard) (10/10/86)
Cc: Article: 10:23 Try the Frenchi's SPAS 12 gauge. It hold 9 rounds and can be used as a pump or semi-auto. It's somewhat larger and heavier than a "normal" shotgun, but I think it's larger capacity and pump or semi-auto feature makes up for that. JM ==
jkh@jade.BERKELEY.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard) (10/27/86)
Cc:
Article: 10:44
I know this is a mild flame but:
Dern it all people! You don't "aim" a shotgun, you point it.
Drawing a bead on a target should be as natural as pointing your finger
at the same target. If you can't do this, either 1) you are still in
"rifle mode", 2) have never been taught correct shotgun skills 3)
the gun doesn't fit.
How to correctly use a shotgun for hunting game: (be it rabbits, fowl,
or clay-pigdeons.)
Carry the gun in a low, comfortable, two-handed stance. If you have
a pump action shotgun, your "weak" hand should be on the actuating handle.
Your strong hand should be around the "neck" of the stock, but your finger
should be out of the trigger guard.
When you have a "target" (after saying "pull", or the bird flies, or
the masked intruder is..) bring the shotgun to your shoulder, lay your
cheek against the stock and bring the business end of your gun up behind the
target in a moderate, steady swing. As the end of the barrel passes the
target, squeeze the trigger, don't jerk it, just squeeze, and don't stop
the swing of your gun (*and body*) until the bird drops.
Flame off:
(sorry)
My personal recommendation is a Winchester Model 12.
Pump action, 12-gauge, a bit more expensive than the others,
but this is a fine tool and weapon. I have 3, love 'em all.
(I also own two Remington Model 870's these would be my other choice
were I to be giving you this advice. Montgomery Wards makes a very nice
clone of this gun.
If your wife wants to shoot it (and I think she should.) get the trap
or skeet loads (light loads).
I see no sense in shooting the "Magnum" loads offered these days.
These place too much stress on the gun in addition to helping promote
"flinch".. The dern things hurt! (And I'm 6'3" - 220 lbs.)
Does anyone out there shoot NRA high-power rifle? I'd be interested in
hearing from you...
jim
Jim Thompson
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2551 Green Valley Pkwy
Henderson, Nv 89015
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