jkh@jade.BERKELEY.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard) (10/30/86)
Article: 10:51 Article: 10:31 >> As I understand it, the XGI was discontinued >> due to design and production problems. I was also >> interested in it, as it seemed to be the answer to >> the semi-auto .308 rifle void. The HK 91 remains >> the only game in town. There are several viable alternatives to the HK 91 as a .308 assault rifle. M1A (semi-auto M14) - Very accurate, and reliable, if you get a good one. My friend owns one, and once we got the gas plunger unrusted with Break-Free, it works great. It's easy to shoot, and super accurate. We got 2" groups, offhand, at 100 yards with cheap ammo and iron sights. With good ammo, some skill and a scope you're taking accuracy. FN-FAL - Very expensive in the past, but the new version is cheaper. Considered by some to be the best battle rifle made. Galil .308 - Supposedly very reliable, also expensive. AK-47 clones - Some of these are available in .308 There are others, but I don't know all the names... The Ruger XG1 would have been a nice addition. However after seeing the M1A in action, I'd be willing to risk getting a gun which was sub-optimal just to get the chance at accuracy. Supposedly Springfield is good about fixing any problems which may come up, and they also offer extensive cusomizing facilities if you want a competion quality rifle. Some of the older HK 91's had problems with headspace, thus causing case head seperation. That, plus the annoying way they mark up the brass can be reasons not to buy. They are also very front-heavy, which is great for soaking up muzzle-jump, but poor for longterm freehand shooting. >> >> Regarding the semi-auto M14s, I have seen ads by both >> Sherwood and Armsport. They apparently are getting their >> receivers from the same supplier and they both >> mention a waiting period of 4 to 6 weeks before >> shipment. The dealer price for the completely >> assembled gun is over $600, less if you purchase >> kits and build it yourself. If you buy an M14 clone, buy it from Springfield Armory, they've been doing it for a while and are probably your best bet. >> >> Jon Kaplowitz >> cbosgd!erc3ba!jfka Robert Allen, robert@sri-spam.ARPA
jkh@jade.BERKELEY.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard) (10/30/86)
Cc: zarifes@ucbvax.Berkeley.Edu Article: 10:52 >> If you get a double barrel, buy over-under. It is easier to sight with >> only one barrel than with two. Skeet shooters use over-under >> combinations effectively, but I don't think you will need one for home >> protection. Just get the riot gun with pump action (gas action is >> expensive) and it can hold 4 shells in total (BY LAW). Unless there is a state or local law which prohibits the maximum number of rounds in a shotgun, there is no restriction. In California, there is only a limit for firearms used in **hunting**. Thus, shotguns which can hold more than 3-4 rounds (whatever the hunting limit is), must have a "plug" installed in the magazine. This plug is commonly a plastic or wooden rod which prevents the magazine follower from compressing the spring past the capacity for the legal limit. Even my SPAS-12, which can hold 9 rounds, comes with a plastic rod to limit the magazine capacity (if I should ever want to hunt animals with it). Further, the hunting limit, I believe, applies only to regulated animals, and not animals which are legally classified as 'pests'. So you can legally go rat-hunting with a SPAS-12. You can also keep such a weapon for home defense, legally. For home defense, a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun may be appropriate if you live in an area where a miss isn't likely to take out someone in the next apartment, otherwise a pistol (loaded with Glaser Safety Slugs) is probably a better choice. Shotguns are really only useful in a "repel all boarders situation", where 'they' are on the outside and 'you' are on the inside. Keep in mind the legal ramifications of shooting someone outside of your home are such that you should only do it if you **KNOW** that they absolutely will kill you if you don't do something. Even then, you will have a tough time explaining it to a jury. Now if you live in the mountains, and are primarily concerned with Charles Manson-like interlopers, a rifle and shotgun are probably the best choices for primary weapons. >> >> Brian Keves ARPA: keves%ra@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu >> Lab for Math and Stats UUCP: sdcsvax!ra!keves >> UCSD, La Jolla, CA PHONE: 619-450-6421 >> Any opinions expressed are my own and are not the opinions of my employer. Robert Allen, robert@sri-spam.ARPA
jkh@jade.BERKELEY.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard) (10/30/86)
Cc: zarifes@ucbvax.Berkeley.Edu Article: 10:53 >> Article: 10:36 >> >> There are a few things to consider when purchasing a "home-defense" weapon. >> First, your neighbors. Any kind of weapon firing solid bullets, such as a >> handgun or rifle, is perfectly capable of going through 2 or 3 walls in a >> typical apartment complex and blowing your neighbor's 2-day-old baby in two. >> A shotgun is no garauntee against this, either. A couple of years ago, a >> young boy was playing in his garage. A guy across the street fired a 12-gauge >> loaded with #00 buck, and one of the pellets penetrated the garage door and >> killed the poor kid instantly. >> >> Second, familiarity. EVERYBODY who might be using the weapon should go out >> to a shooting range and fire a couple hundred rounds through it, and become >> completely familiar with loading, unloading (jettisoning unfired shells), and >> cleaning. The point is, if you EVER wake up in the middle of the night and >> hear somebody knocking around downstairs, you, and CERTAINLY your wife, >> are going to be VERY uptight. There's a good chance >> you'll forget to flip off the safety or forget to chamber in a shell. Cold >> sweat time! You make some excellent points, although some women may take exception to your use of the word "CERTAINLY" in the above paragraph. >> >> Third, weapon selection. The only solid-bullet piece that is safe would be >> a high-velocity, small-caliber weapon such as a .223. These bullets will >> disintegrate upon hitting any object of substance. However, if your victim >> is wearing heavy winter clothes, you might not accomplish much even if you >> did hit him. That brings us to buckshot. One thing to remember here is that Hold On there!! I own an AR-15, which is in .223 caliber, and have fired many different types of bullets in it. Both soft-point and FMJ ammo will NOT disintegrate on clothing, or even flesh. While firing at the range, I was surprised to see the .223 lift a gallon milk jug of water 3' up in the air, and still have a clean exit hole. I once had some 53 grain hollow point .223's loaded up, and they would disintegrate, but then, that is an unusual load. In any case I believe that they would penetrate any amount of clothing one was wearing. The poor .223 has been the victim of immense amounts of hyperbole. It isn't my intent to provide the complete ballistic history of the round, but let me address one thing. The .223 bullet has been said to 'tumble' when fired. This is bull. It (any many other high-velocity bullets with a similar profile) has been known to tumble when it IMPACTS with flesh. But then, so has the .22 rimfire. The tumbling effect is the result of a combination of effects, among them; bullet design and weight, rifling twist, powder used, etc.. The Russians, with their development of a 5.43mm (.223 == 5.56mm) round, have (probably accidentally) produced a round which also 'tumbles' when it hits flesh. It does this by using a bullet with an iron and lead core, with some air space as well. It is not a hollow point bullet, but is a hollow bullet. Supposedly it produces very lethal wounds. Note that the new M16 has a different bbl. twist to function with the new armour piercing ammo, and this may (or may not) produce different impact behavior with standard ammo. >> regardless of the size of the shot, the total weight of the load, and thus >> its total energy, remains the same. A standard 12-gauge #00 load only has >> 9 to 12 pellets. If only two or three hit him, you could find yourself in an >> exciting situation. Of course, smaller stuff like #7 1/2's won't have enough >> penetration, but they would probably knock him down. I'd suggest BB shot >> or perhaps #2's. These give you a much denser pattern (45 to 100 pellets), This paragraph is very confusing. I'm not going to try an analyze it, but will comment a bit on the subject addressed. First and foremost, the impact of any small-arms' round will not, in and of itself, knock you down. The "knockdown" cause is related to the disruption of tissue and nerves, so that it really only applies if you hit an area that is unarmored. A person wearing soft body armour will not be knocked down even by a .308, as long as they are well balanced, and have a bulletproof vest up to the level required to stop the round. This said, I prefer using buckshot when I use a shotgun. I wouldn't use a shotgun in my apartment, unless I knew I had nothing to lose by firing. It has been shown in many tests that a load of birdshot will make just as big a hole in a plasterboard wall as buckshot. Aside from that, a shotgun is a difficult weapon for the uninitiated to clear a house with, and is more easily levered away by an opponent. It also had a huge muzzle blast, and muzzle flash in the dark. I would much prefer a pistol, loaded with Glaser Safety Slugs or some other frangible ammo, for home use. My personal choice currently is a Detonics Mk. I .45 auto, loaded with my own 200 grain Speer JHP load. It has more penetration then most people might want, but I don't intend to shoot at anything I can't see, and which isn't close enought to pretty much guarantee a hit. However, I will probably move to using Glasers as soon as I verify that they work properly in my Detonics. >> can penetrate well, and enough of them will hit the target to do the job. It >> would be comparable to getting hit in the chest with a bowling ball at >> about 40-50 mph. If your wife is also to use the thing, she'd probably be >> better off with a 20-gauge, which has MUCH less recoil than a big 12, yet is >> just as effective. My own "house gun" is an old Sears 20-gauge pump, loaded >> with #4's in 3-inch magnum shells and sawed off to 18 inches. Picked it up >> at a pawn shop for $100. It's light, fast, and deadly. Good luck. Come on, a 3" magnum has less recoil than a standard 12 ga. ? Maybe, but it has to a pretty close call. If I'd chosen the 20 ga. for recoils' sake, I'd stick with non-magnum loads for it. Otherwise I'd just use a 12 guage. >> >> Ron Morgan >> >> -- >> osmigo1, UTexas Computation Center, Austin, Texas 78712 >> ARPA: osmigo1@ngp.UTEXAS.EDU >> UUCP: ihnp4!ut-ngp!osmigo1 allegra!ut-ngp!osmigo1 gatech!ut-ngp!osmigo1 >> seismo!ut-sally!ut-ngp!osmigo1 harvard!ut-sally!ut-ngp!osmigo1 Robert Allen, robert@sri-spam.ARPA