smithcollege%umass-ece.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA (10/12/85)
From: smithcollege%umass-ece.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
I'm looking for the names of some feminist sf/fantasy authors and/or
works. I've already got a few favorites, but I'm sick of sorting through
sexist chaff and I could really use some recommendations from sisters or
brothers out there. Antifeminists please note: I'm not going to argue with
you people, so don't bother to flame me. You read your kind of literature
and I'll read mine.
Mary Malmros
Center for Academic Computing
Smith College
Northampton, MA 01060
smithcollege.umass-ece$csnet-relayethan@utastro.UUCP (Ethan Vishniac) (10/13/85)
> > I'm looking for the names of some feminist sf/fantasy authors and/or > works. I've already got a few favorites, but I'm sick of sorting through > sexist chaff and I could really use some recommendations from sisters or > brothers out there. > Mary Malmros You may already have these, but Ursala Leguin and Joanna Russ are the first names to come to mind. The former is probably my favorite author. The latter is pretty good. One other book is "Native Tongue" by Suzette Elgin. -- "Superior firepower is an Ethan Vishniac important asset when {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan entering into ethan@astro.UTEXAS.EDU negotiations" Department of Astronomy University of Texas
rwl@uvacs.UUCP (Ray Lubinsky) (10/14/85)
> From: smithcollege%umass-ece.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA > > I'm looking for the names of some feminist sf/fantasy authors and/or > works. I've already got a few favorites, but I'm sick of sorting through > sexist chaff and I could really use some recommendations from sisters or > brothers out there. Antifeminists please note: I'm not going to argue with > you people, so don't bother to flame me. You read your kind of literature > and I'll read mine. I understand that Marion Zimmer Bradley has been into this topic, but I've gotten the impression that she gets pretty soapboxy. I don't know if you're into tracts; I'm not. Try Ursula K. Leguin; she may not be a feminist, but she is a humanist. I like her stories, especially her sf. She's into ``social sf'' -- for example, my favorite, ``The Left Hand of Darkness''. This is a novel that really plays with your sense of gender bias, set on a world where the natives are hermaphrodites which may cycle (physically) to either masculine or feminine. It's a good, satisifying read. Sorry to say, I can't think of many male sf author that don't have a Boy Scout's view of either the opposite sex or any kind of sex. However, I do think that Samuel R. Delaney has never written ``sexist chaff''. -- Ray Lubinsky University of Virginia, Dept. of Computer Science uucp: decvax!mcnc!ncsu!uvacs!rwl
judith@proper.UUCP (Judith Abrahms) (10/15/85)
In article <> smithcollege%umass-ece.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA writes: > > I'm looking for the names of some feminist sf/fantasy authors and/or >works. I've already got a few favorites, but I'm sick of sorting through >sexist chaff and I could really use some recommendations ... I'd send you mail, but I can't use the path you give. James Tiptree, Jr., is a woman & a hell of a good SF writer. I'd call her a feminist as well. She's published several collections: Ten Thousand Light Years From Home, Star Songs of an Old Primate, Out of the Everywhere, Warm Worlds and Otherwise. Also a fine novel, Up the Walls of the World, which you might especially like: one of the main characters is a black female programmer who becomes quite a bit more than that. She has a new novel out, which I haven't seen yet, called Brightness Falls from the Air. Judith Abrahms {ucbvax,ihnp4}!dual!proper!judith
barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) (10/15/85)
Joanna Russ's THE FEMALE MAN is a classic and not badly written either. Elgin's NATIVE TONGUE and OZARK TRILOGY MZBradley's more recent Darkover books, starting with THE SHATTERED CHAIN. These are all comparatively strident. If you're willing to settle merely for egalitarian books with strong, independent women, you'll probably get better science fiction/fantasy. Like Brust's JHEREG and YENDI, LeGuin's Wizard of Earthsea series, book two or LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS, or McKillip's Riddle of Stars trilogy or FORGOTTEN BEASTS OF ELD. Luck, --Lee Gold
wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly) (10/15/85)
> I'm looking for the names of some feminist sf/fantasy authors and/or > works. I've already got a few favorites, but I'm sick of sorting through > sexist chaff and I could really use some recommendations from sisters or > brothers out there. > Mary Malmros You might check out a couple of collections of SF by women that came out a few years back: "Women Of Wonder" and "More Women Of Wonder." I'm not sure about the name of the second collection. Both were available in paperback a few years ago. ==================================== Language is a virus from outer space And hearing your name is better than Seeing your face (L. Anderson) ==================================== -- Cheers, Bill Ingogly
avolio@decuac.UUCP (Frederick M. Avolio) (10/15/85)
I would think that most all of Marian Z. Bradley's books might fill the bill, too.
freeman@spar.UUCP (Jay Freeman) (10/16/85)
[] > From: smithcollege%umass-ece.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA > > I'm looking for the names of some feminist sf/fantasy authors and/or > works. I've already got a few favorites, but I'm sick of sorting through > sexist chaff and I could really use some recommendations from sisters or > brothers out there. Antifeminists please note: I'm not going to argue with > you people, so don't bother to flame me. You read your kind of literature > and I'll read mine. C. J. Cherryh has written some fine SF and fantasy that touches on feminist topics. Try the "Morgaine" trilogy -- Gate of Ivrel, Well of Shiuan, Fires of Azeroth; the "Faded Sun" triliogy; also Pride of Chanur. -- Jay Reynolds Freeman (Schlumberger Palo Alto Research)(canonical disclaimer)
Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA (10/16/85)
From: Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA Here are my favorites: * The Screwfly Solution, James Tiptree Jr. For a man, Tiptree sure writes strong female characters well. I also enjoy the upbeat endings that his novels always have. * Witch World, etc., by Andre Norton Another male writer who espouses feminist views. His female characters are also very well written. * A Spell For Chameleon, The Source Of Magic, Castle Roogna, etc., Piers Anthony I've found Piers Anthony to be an author who, unlike many others, has no problem at all with feminist doctrine. * Titan, Wizard, Demon, John Varley Again, strong female characters. A friend of mine pointed out that, "To Varley, a woman can only be a strong character if she is a Lesbian." Others have suggested that John Norman's Gor series treat women in a radically different way than most other authors, but I haven't had a chance to read any of those books. Enjoy! Commodore Perry (-: Ask a silly question ... :-)
chris@ICO.UUCP (10/17/85)
John Norman's Gor series certainly treats women in a different light than most authors, but it isn't exactly a feminist light. The Gor series started as a pretty typical Swords and Muscles book with a strong masculine supremacist bent. As the books kept coming out, this element kept getting stronger until the books turned into some wierd softcore bondage pornography. On Gor (which is on the other side of the sun from the earth) women are basically property, and enjoy being abused. The books have gotten very strange, and were never very good to begin with. "Norman" (it's a pseudonym) has published a book on sexuality. The subtitle might be "50 ways to tie your lover". Recommended for a laugh, but too strange to take seriously. The stuff isn't art, and it isn't amusing, but if you are in the mood for something different and unpleasant, you might look at one. chris Chris Kostanick decvax!vortex!ism780!ico!chris ucbvax!ucla-cs!ism780!ico!chris Nope, i stopped buying them after book three.
ml1@ukc.UUCP (M.Longley) (10/17/85)
I am not really sure what qualifies a book to be considered as feminist, but I think most of the following are at least not sexist, though I may be wrong about this. I would be interested in learning which authors of SF you do consider as feminist in particular if they are people I have not so far read. Anyway I can at least claim that I think the following books are worth reading. By far the best is "The Female Man" by Joanna Russ. Lynn Abbey Daughter of the Bright Moon | The Black Flame | The Guardians F.M. Busby Zelde M'Tana | Rissa Kerguelen Octavia E. Butler Clay's Ark | Mind of My Mind | Survivor | Patternmaster Jayge Carr Leviathan's Deep Suzy McKee Charnas Walk to the End of the World | Motherlines Samuel R. Delany Babel-17 Suzette Haden Elgin Native Tongue Cynthia Felice Godsfire | The Sunbound | Eclipses Sally Miller Gearhart The Wanderground Mary Gentle Golden Witchbreed Phyllis Gotlieb Sunburst | A Judgement of Dragons | Emperor, Swords, Pentacles | The Kingdom of the Cats Jen Green & Sarah Lefanu (eds) Despatches from the Frontiers of the Female Mind Virginia Kidd (ed) The Eye of the Heron and Other Stories Lee Killough The Monitor, the Miners and the Shree | The Doppleganger Gambit | Liberty's World Donald Kingsbury Courtship Rite Ursula K. LeGuin The Dispossessed | The Left Hand of Darkness Elizabeth A. Lynn Watchtower | The Dancers of Arun | The Northern Girl R.A. MacAvoy Tea With the Black Dragon Vonda N. McIntyre The Exile Waiting | Dreamsnake Sandra Miesel Dreamrider Jane Palmer The Planet Dweller Joanna Russ The Female Man | We Who Are About To ... | The Two of Them | And Chaos Died | The Adventures of Alyx | The Zanzibar Cat | Extra(Ordinary) People Pamela Sargent (ed) Women of Wonder | More Women of Wonder James H. Schmitz The Universe Against Her | The Lion Game | The Demon Breed | The Telzey Toy and Other Stories | Agent of Vega Alice Sheldon 10,000 Light-Years From Home | Warm Worlds and Otherwise | Star Songs of an Old Primate | Out of the Everywhere, and Other Extraordinary Visions John Varley Titan | Wizard | Demon | The Ophiuchi Hotline | In the Hall of the Martian Kings | The Barbie Murders Joan D. Vinge The Outcasts of Heaven Belt | Fireship | Eyes of Amber and Other Stories
mhs@lanl.ARPA (10/18/85)
> From: Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA > > Here are my favorites: > > * The Screwfly Solution, James Tiptree Jr. > For a man, Tiptree sure writes strong female characters well. I also > enjoy the upbeat endings that his novels always have. > > * Witch World, etc., by Andre Norton > Another male writer who espouses feminist views. His female characters > are also very well written. > > * A Spell For Chameleon, The Source Of Magic, Castle Roogna, etc., Piers > Anthony > I've found Piers Anthony to be an author who, unlike many others, has no > problem at all with feminist doctrine. > > * Titan, Wizard, Demon, John Varley > Again, strong female characters. A friend of mine pointed out that, "To > Varley, a woman can only be a strong character if she is a Lesbian." > > Others have suggested that John Norman's Gor series treat women in a > radically different way than most other authors, but I haven't had a > chance to read any of those books. James Tiptree Jr and Andre Norton are women. The Gor series doesn't treat women in radically different ways: it views them as objects. Certainly Tiptree's gender and Norman's views have been discussed in the net before. I always thought that James Schmitz's women were capable people. Try "The demon breed" or the books about Telzey Amberdon -- "The lion game" and "A tale of two clocks" are two of them, I think, but I can't vouch for the titles. But if you want explicit feminist doctrine, you won't get it in these books.
meissner@rtp47.UUCP (Michael Meissner) (10/18/85)
In article <4052@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA writes: >From: Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA > >Here are my favorites: > >* The Screwfly Solution, James Tiptree Jr. >For a man, Tiptree sure writes strong female characters well. I also >enjoy the upbeat endings that his novels always have. > >* Witch World, etc., by Andre Norton >Another male writer who espouses feminist views. His female characters >are also very well written. > Aren't James Tiptree and Andre Norton, both women?
chris@ICO.UUCP (10/18/85)
A minor quibble on Schmitz. The protagonist in A Tale of Two Clocks is Trigger Argee, not Telzey Amberdon. The book Agent of Vega has 3 strong female protagonists, and is my second favorite Schmitz book. (My fav of course being The Witches of Karres) Most of Schmitz's writting has strong female characters. chris Chris Kostanick decvax!vortex!ism780!ico!chris ucbvax!ucla-cs!ism780!ico!chris
unixcorn@dcc1.UUCP (math.c) (10/18/85)
In article <4052@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA writes: >From: Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA > >Here are my favorites: > > >* Witch World, etc., by Andre Norton >Another male writer who espouses feminist views. His female characters >are also very well written. > ALICE MARY NORTON (writes as Andre Norton) is and has been female for a goodly number of years. -- unixcorn (alias m. gould) "there's a unicorn in the garden and he's eating a lily" gatech!dcc1!unixcorn
ariels@orca.UUCP (Ariel Shattan) (10/18/85)
> In article <> smithcollege%umass-ece.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA writes: > > > > I'm looking for the names of some feminist sf/fantasy authors and/or > >works. I've already got a few favorites, but I'm sick of sorting through > >sexist chaff and I could really use some recommendations ... > > I'd send you mail, but I can't use the path you give. > > James Tiptree, Jr., is a woman & a hell of a good SF writer. Like Judith, I can't use your path. I second the Tiptree nomination, and would like to add: Jessica Amanda Salmonson: Editor of Amazons and Amazons II (feminist heroic fantasy) Vonda N. McIntyre Dreamsnake (Hugo winner) and others Spider Robinson Stardance (with Jeanne Robinson) and others Elizabeth Lynn The Sardonyx Net (her best in my opinion) C. J. Cherryh very prolific Chelsea Quinn Yarbro False Dawn (I like her sf much better than her fanatsy) Kate Wilhelm many books, excelent writer Octavia Butler Mind of my Mind, Clay's Ark, etc Marta Randall Jo Clayton Alytis series (fantasy, ok, but not a favorite) There are many more, and if you send me a uucp path, I can go through my library in a detailed way. I'm generally not willing to sacrifice good writing for political correctness, so I haven't got many of the feminist books that are out today. Ariel Shattan ..!{decvax, ihnp4, allegra, uw-beaver, ucbvax}!tektronix!orca!ariels
arlan@inuxm.UUCP (A Andrews) (10/18/85)
> From: Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA > > Here are my favorites: > > * The Screwfly Solution, James Tiptree Jr. > For a man, Tiptree sure writes strong female characters well. I also > enjoy the upbeat endings that his novels always have. > > * Witch World, etc., by Andre Norton > Another male writer who espouses feminist views. His female characters > are also very well written. > > * A Spell For Chameleon, The Source Of Magic, Castle Roogna, etc., Piers > Anthony > I've found Piers Anthony to be an author who, unlike many others, has no > problem at all with feminist doctrine. > > * Titan, Wizard, Demon, John Varley > Again, strong female characters. A friend of mine pointed out that, "To > Varley, a woman can only be a strong character if she is a Lesbian." > > Others have suggested that John Norman's Gor series treat women in a > radically different way than most other authors, but I haven't had a > chance to read any of those books. > > Enjoy! > > Commodore Perry > > (-: Ask a silly question ... :-) *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** James Tiptree, Jr., SHOULD write strong female characters, if anyone can, since he is the pseudonym of Alice Sheldon. (We all fall into this trap; I even used "his" name in a novelty item I did in OMNI four years ago-- "Science Fictional Table of Elements.") --arlan andrews, analog irregular
chai@utflis.UUCP (Henry Chai) (10/19/85)
In article <4052@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA writes: > >* Witch World, etc., by Andre Norton >Another male writer who espouses feminist views. His female characters >are also very well written. > Oh my GAAAWD! My favorite sf/fantasy writer, full name Alice Mary Norton, once dubbed as the "Grand Dame of sf", called a "male". A big brrrrphphph (raspberry) to you, Caro !-) Actually Andre is now her official name. When she started to write, she used the name Andrew North, and later, Andre Norton. Since then she has written a whole lot of books with this name, so she decided to have her "real" name changed officially . All this because way back then (1950's) there was no such thing as a female sf writer. She doesn't like to go to conventions. Also, she's already semi-retired now, so she's not well known (but her books are still widely available). I like all her Witch World books (a dozen or so of them ). Lately her stories have become, ur, let's say predictable (rather then boring). But with some newer ones she collaborated with another person, and these are quite good. >* A Spell For Chameleon, The Source Of Magic, Castle Roogna, etc., Piers >Anthony >I've found Piers Anthony to be an author who, unlike many others, has no >problem at all with feminist doctrine. > AARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!! I'd like to hit anyone who'd recommand the Xanth novels to a feminist. THEY ARE SEXIST TO THE EXTREME !!!!!!! I mean, do you think that in a land where every female tries to look pretty, wants to show off their legs, and schemes to catch men for husbands, there is equality among the sexes? Now I'm not sure whether Piers Anthony did it tongue-in-cheek or not, since this sexsim appear only briefly in the Blue Adept trilogy and the Cluster novels, and not in the other books by him that I've read. (I haven't read any of his recent stuff, they sort of put me off after the first few chapters). Anyway I'm not the only person who find the Xanth novels sexist. I have no idea what you mean by "female doctrine" if you believe that a feminist would enjoy these books. And another bbbrrrrphphphph to you ! >:-( ----------- -- Henry Chai a humble student at the Faculty of Library and Information Science, U of Toronto {watmath,ihnp4,allegra}!utzoo!utflis!chai
pete@stc.UUCP (10/21/85)
Summary: Expires: Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Keywords: Xpath: stc stc-b stc-b stc-a In article <4052@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA writes: >From: Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA > >Here are my favorites: > >* The Screwfly Solution, James Tiptree Jr. >For a man, Tiptree sure writes strong female characters well. I also >enjoy the upbeat endings that his novels always have. > >* Witch World, etc., by Andre Norton >Another male writer who espouses feminist views. His female characters >are also very well written. > MALE WRITERS? Like Currer Bell or George Eliot, I suppose. >Others have suggested that John Norman's Gor series treat women in a >radically different way than most other authors, but I haven't had a >chance to read any of those books. > Unless you're heavily into a Rambo or Conan world-view don't bother. >Enjoy! > >Commodore Perry > >(-: Ask a silly question ... :-) Get a silly answer... 8=} -- Peter Kendell <pete@stc.UUCP> ...mcvax!ukc!stc!pete 'Only too far is far enough'
clelau@wateng.UUCP (Eric C.L. Lau) (10/21/85)
From: Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA > > Here are my favorites: > > * The Screwfly Solution, James Tiptree Jr. > For a man, Tiptree sure writes strong female characters well. I also > enjoy the upbeat endings that his novels always have. > > * Witch World, etc., by Andre Norton > Another male writer who espouses feminist views. His female characters ... > * A Spell For Chameleon, The Source Of Magic, Castle Roogna, etc., Piers > Anthony > I've found Piers Anthony to be an author who, unlike many others, has no > problem at all with feminist doctrine. > > * Titan, Wizard, Demon, John Varley > Again, strong female characters. A friend of mine pointed out that, "To > Varley, a woman can only be a strong character if she is a Lesbian." > > Others have suggested that John Norman's Gor series treat women in a > radically different way than most other authors, but I haven't had a > chance to read any of those books. > > Enjoy! > > Commodore Perry > > (-: Ask a silly question ... :-) Almost had me fooled till I got to the :-)'s at the end. I didn't think anyone could make that many mistakes in one posting. However I don't think it's a silly question... Eric Lau ...!{utcsri|ihnp4}!watmath!wateng!clelau
jagardner@watmath.UUCP (Jim Gardner) (10/21/85)
In article <294@inuxm.UUCP> arlan@inuxm.UUCP (A Andrews) writes: >> From: Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA >> >> Here are my favorites: >> >> * The Screwfly Solution, James Tiptree Jr. >> For a man, Tiptree sure writes strong female characters well. I also >> enjoy the upbeat endings that his novels always have. >> >> * Witch World, etc., by Andre Norton >> Another male writer who espouses feminist views. His female characters >> are also very well written. >> >> * A Spell For Chameleon, The Source Of Magic, Castle Roogna, etc., Piers >> Anthony >> I've found Piers Anthony to be an author who, unlike many others, has no >> problem at all with feminist doctrine. >> >> * Titan, Wizard, Demon, John Varley >> Again, strong female characters. A friend of mine pointed out that, "To >> Varley, a woman can only be a strong character if she is a Lesbian." >> >> Others have suggested that John Norman's Gor series treat women in a >> radically different way than most other authors, but I haven't had a >> chance to read any of those books. >> >> Enjoy! >> >> Commodore Perry >> >> (-: Ask a silly question ... :-) > >*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** >James Tiptree, Jr., SHOULD write strong female characters, if anyone can, >since he is the pseudonym of Alice Sheldon. (We all fall into this trap; >I even used "his" name in a novelty item I did in OMNI four years ago-- >"Science Fictional Table of Elements.") > >--arlan andrews, analog irregular Honestly, sometimes I despair, when even smiley faces are not sufficient! I especially despair on behalf of SF Lovers everywhere who KNOW that James Tiptree Jr. and Andre Norton are female, KNOW Piers Anthony has incredibly patronizing views towards women in the Xanth books and elsewhere, and KNOW that the Gor series is the peak in treating women as sex slaves. I don't want to attack Arlan in particular, because he's just the straw who broke my camel's back. I just want to assure Commodore Perry that I know a joke when I see one, and I thought it was a giggle. Jim Gardner, University of Waterloo
KFL@MIT-MC.ARPA (10/22/85)
From: "Keith F. Lynch" <KFL@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Date: 16 Oct 85 13:15:17 PDT (Wednesday)
From: Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA
...
* The Screwfly Solution, James Tiptree Jr.
For a man, Tiptree sure writes strong female characters well. I
also enjoy the upbeat endings that his novels always have.
She's not a man.
...Keithguy@slu70.UUCP (Guy M. Smith) (10/22/85)
> Others have suggested that John Norman's Gor series treat women in a > radically different way than most other authors, but I haven't had a > chance to read any of those books. > I read a couple of the Gor novels while waiting for a Greyhound in Mojave (in other words, I was desperate). My impression of his attitudes towards women was that it would be rather hard to be much less feminist. By comparison Phyllis Schlafly is a flaming liberal. As an example, he seems to believe that a women's deepest desire is to be a slave to a man. Not having read all the books I can't vouch for all that he's said but I suspect the rest are similar. Guy Smith (How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?)
nancy@MIT-HTVAX.ARPA (10/22/85)
From: Nancy Connor <nancy@MIT-HTVAX.ARPA>
From: Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA
* The Screwfly Solution, James Tiptree Jr.
For a man, Tiptree sure writes strong female characters well. I
also enjoy the upbeat endings that his novels always have.
* Witch World, etc., by Andre Norton
Another male writer who espouses feminist views. His female
characters are also very well written.
I'm sure I won't be the only one to say this, but for the umpteenth
time (on this list, anyway)... you've made a few mistakes about the
gender of the writers you cite. One of the reasons that James Tiptree
Jr. and Andre Norton both write about female characters so well is
because they *are* female, not male.
* A Spell For Chameleon, The Source Of Magic, Castle Roogna, etc.,
Piers Anthony
I've found Piers Anthony to be an author who, unlike many others,
has no problem at all with feminist doctrine.
I don't agree with you about Piers Anthony. He is very erratic in his
treatment of women. He tends to make parodies of women and their
problems in many of his works, while he is *saying* that women deserve
better treatment... it seems very hypocritical to me.
-Nancy Connorterry@nrcvax.UUCP (Terry Grevstad) (10/22/85)
> I'm looking for the names of some feminist sf/fantasy authors and/or > works. I've already got a few favorites, but I'm sick of sorting through > sexist chaff and I could really use some recommendations from sisters or > brothers out there. > Mary Malmros What about Kate Wilhelm (sp?), WHERE LATE THE SWEET BIRDS SANG? She also has another out that I can't remember the title of right now that is quite feminist and quite good. Anyway, I enjoyed it and I'm definitely not a feminist. She's just a good author and writes from the woman's standpoint. If you want other titles, send me mail and I'll get them from home. -- \"\t\f1A\h'+1m'\f4\(mo\h'+1m'\f1the\h'+1m'\f4\(es\t\f1\c _______________________________________________________________________ Terry Grevstad Network Research Corporation ihnp4!nrcvax!terry {sdcsvax,hplabs}!sdcrdcf!psivax!nrcvax!terry ucbvax!calma!nrcvax!terry
@amd.UUCP (10/24/85)
> James Tiptree, Jr., SHOULD write strong female characters, if anyone can, > since he is the pseudonym of Alice Sheldon. (We all fall into this trap; > I even used "his" name in a novelty item I did in OMNI four years ago-- > "Science Fictional Table of Elements.") > > --arlan andrews, analog irregular Look, being female does NOT guarantee that one can write strong female characters!! Nor does being male preclude the ability to write strong female characters! Now, if anyone wants a flame session, just for fun, we can cite examples of female authors who write lousy female characters: o Swooning females can be found in great abundance in romance novels, such as those marketed by Harlequin (admittedly, most of this stuff is probably not science fiction or what we like to call fantasy--at least, I'm guessing because you don't think I'm going to read them all! :-) ); many of these are written by women o Anne McCaffrey--okay, I have to admit to a fondness for Lessa, but _Restoree_ was dreadful! I'm being a little mean to pick on one book out of many. o A E Van Vogt's female characters are only really bad when he collaborated with his wife--I wonder what her influence was on this. (Yes, call me ignorant! But enlighten me with your opinions!) In addition, many protagnists authors wrote about mostly male (C. L. Moore, Leigh Brackett, Andre Norton (at least her early stuff))--many of these stories today might be written with a female protagnist, but at the time they were written the authors thought, at least it seems obvious that Moore and Norton thought so, that no one would take seriously a book by a woman--a female protagnist would be preposterous. And the same is true for male authors: I think today you have more of an opportunity to make a choice about the gender of your characters--they don't have to translate into strong, carries a sword ==> male And, well, maybe this is too late, but if I've insulted your favorite author: look, I read the stuff, didn't I? (And I'll probably read more too!) Disclaimer: I speak for myself (at best), not for the evil vaxian empire. L S Chabot ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot
6243tes@whuts.UUCP (STERKEL) (10/24/85)
From postnews Thu Oct 24 14:33:58 1985 > > > > I'm looking for the names of some feminist sf/fantasy authors and/or > > works. I've already got a few favorites, but I'm sick of sorting through > > sexist chaff and I could really use some recommendations from sisters or > > brothers out there. > > Mary Malmros > > You may already have these, but Ursala Leguin and Joanna Russ are the > first names to come to mind. The former is probably my favorite author. > The latter is pretty good. One other book is "Native Tongue" by > Suzette Elgin. > -- Another writer is Marion Zimmer Bradley. She has cranked out accept- able to very good SF. In the SF catagoy, she has a series of books on a "colonized/forgotton/decline to barbarismpainful move to civil- ization/special power discovery/rediscovery by earth" planet called "Darkover". Some of the Darkover books apparently were co-authored by member(s) (?) of her fan club (Darkover Society?) (I am fuzzy on details). In this group, I recommend Thenarda (sp) House, a beautiful book on friendship and switching places between alien cultures. It is currently available in main line bookstores. Marion has branched out into fantasy, writing (in her own words) "my first non-pot-boiler serious bood" "Mists of Avalon", a very large book on some best seller lists. It is very rich and conse- quently a slow read. I have had to put it aside for later several times which is a novel (pun intended) experience for me as I devour the average SF/Fantasy in 5-6 hours. Marion also is a frequent contributor to the Theives world series (___. ___. Asperin, editor). Terry (a brother) ihnp4!whuts!6243tes .
@amd.UUCP (10/24/85)
Tiptree, Norton, males; Anthony, Norman, feminism...you know, ol' fen, I think we got ourselves another "_Mindkiller_ by Spider Robinson", here. :-) L S Chabot
terry@nrcvax.UUCP (Terry Grevstad) (10/25/85)
Caro.PA@Xerox.ARPA says: >* Witch World, etc., by Andre Norton >Another male writer who espouses feminist views. His female characters >are also very well written. Please! Andre Norton is the pen name of a female. I used to know her real name, but can't bring it to mind at the moment. -- \"\t\f1A\h'+1m'\f4\(mo\h'+1m'\f1the\h'+1m'\f4\(es\t\f1\c _______________________________________________________________________ Terry Grevstad Network Research Corporation ihnp4!nrcvax!terry {sdcsvax,hplabs}!sdcrdcf!psivax!nrcvax!terry ucbvax!calma!nrcvax!terry
chai@utflis.UUCP (Henry Chai) (10/25/85)
In article <1009@decwrl.UUCP> @amd.UUCP writes: >Now, if anyone wants a flame session, just for fun, we can cite examples of >female authors who write lousy female characters: > > o Anne McCaffrey--okay, I have to admit to a fondness for Lessa, but > _Restoree_ was dreadful! I'm being a little mean to pick on one book > out of many. > Hear! Hear! I've often thought of said book as a Harlequin Romance in an sf setting. _Decision on Doona_ is equally horrible: women are seen as the belong-in-the-kitchen-and-overly-sensitive type. There was one passage about a little boy describing in detail how the "native" aliens kill a local beast for food, and his sister started crying and said something like "Horrible! Horrible!" and ran to her room. The mother gave the boy an angry look, rushed after the girl to comfort her, while father and son looked at each other in understanding and smiled. Yuck! But I must point out that comtemporary McCaffery, e.g. "Crystal Singer", treats the two sexes equally. (the two "bad" books are very early McCaffery) -- Henry Chai, just a humble student at the Faculty of Library and Information Science, U of Toronto {watmath,ihnp4,allegra}!utzoo!utflis!chai
boyajian@akov68.DEC (JERRY BOYAJIAN) (10/26/85)
> From: dec-miles!chabot (Lisa Chabot) > ...just for fun, we can cite examples of > female authors who write lousy female characters: > > o Swooning females can be found in great abundance in romance novels, such > as those marketed by Harlequin (admittedly, most of this stuff is probably > not science fiction or what we like to call fantasy--at least, I'm guessing > because you don't think I'm going to read them all! :-) ); many of these > are written by women I almost hate to tell you this, Lisa, but there is *one* Harlequin romance that is fantasy ("our" kind of fantasy): THE FLOWER OF ETERNITY by Margery Hamilton. It's a "lost race" fantasy. If you want to read it [:-)], I have a copy. [No, I haven't read it; I found out about it from a friend for whom bibliography is as much a business as for me.] --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, Acton-Nagog, MA) UUCP: {decvax|ihnp4|allegra|ucbvax|...} !decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-akov68!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%akov68.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA <"Bibliography is my business">
liz@unirot.UUCP (Mamaliz ) (10/26/85)
In article <544@utflis.UUCP> chai@utflis.UUCP (Henry Chai) writes: >In article <1009@decwrl.UUCP> @amd.UUCP writes: >>Now, if anyone wants a flame session, just for fun, we can cite examples of >>female authors who write lousy female characters: >> >> o Anne McCaffrey--okay, I have to admit to a fondness for Lessa, but >> _Restoree_ was dreadful! I'm being a little mean to pick on one book >> out of many. >> >Hear! Hear! I've often thought of said book as a Harlequin Romance >in an sf setting. McCaffrey wrote Restoree as a spoof. At least that is what she has been saying for a number of years. I think it is a fun spoof, but then, I do not expect everything I read to mirror my politics. lizzy
chk@purdue.UUCP (Chuck Koelbel) (11/05/85)
> (Yes, call me ignorant! But enlighten me with your opinions!) > > In addition, many protagnists authors wrote about mostly male (C. L. Moore, > Leigh Brackett, Andre Norton (at least her early stuff))--many of these stories > today might be written with a female protagnist, but at the time they were > written the authors thought, at least it seems obvious that Moore and Norton > thought so, that no one would take seriously a book by a woman--a female > protagnist would be preposterous. And the same is true for male authors: I > think today you have more of an opportunity to make a choice about the gender > of your characters--they don't have to translate into > > strong, carries a sword ==> male > I have to agree with you in general - VERY few females in sword & sorcery tales have anything resembling character. But C. L. Moore did write a series of stories about a woman warrior (and a good one at that). The stories have been collected in _Jirel_of_Joirey_ (spelling approximate). I haven't read all of them, but the ones I have read are excellent. And Jirel (the heroine) is, in my opinion, a good character. For those of you who want more information, the setting for most (maybe all) of the stories is Castle Joirey, a keep owned by Jirel. The castle is unusual in that it has an entrance to Hell in the dungeon. Through various circum- stances, Jirel is forced to enter Hell time and again. One unusual feature of Moore's version of Hell is that it is not all conventional devils and demons - it is more a psychological horror than a physical one. It is an idea that was way ahead of its time in fantasy short stories. Chuck Koelbel
hankb@teklds.UUCP (Hank Buurman) (11/15/85)
Would the originator of this subject please stand up? I want to thank you.
Not only was the discussion interesting, but I've been turned on to a whole
new (for me) literary genre. Following some suggestions in reply to your
posting, I've read "Northern Girl" by Elizabeth Lynn, "Warrior Woman" by
Marion Zimmer Bradley, and am currently reading "Picnic On Paradise" by
Joanna Russ. All three are delightful. Would it be possible for you to
summarize to the net, or to me by e-mail the replys to your posting? Thanks.
--
Hank Buurman Tektronix Inc. ihnp4!tektronix!dadlac!hankb
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