ee161bep@sdcc3.UUCP (Paul Van de Graaf) (08/09/85)
After reading all this discussion about whether Coke has sugar or corn syrup in it, and who bottles/makes Dr. Pepper; I chanced to look at my can of D. P. today. To my surprise I saw Polyethylene Glycol as the last ingredient! I know that ethylene glycol is that sweet-tasting poisonous stuff that goes into anti-freeze. I also seem to remember a recent report about a recall of some Austrian or German wine, because it had ethylene glycol in it to make it sweeter. I'm no chemist, but shouldn't polyethylene glycol be somewhat similar in properties as ethylene glycol (ie. isn't it toxic)? Doesn't polyethylene just mean many-ethylene? I'm sure I'm just raving about nothing, but I would like someone to tell me why this stuff might be in Dr. Pepper. --------------------------------------------------------------------- |The Milliard Gargantubrain at Maxi Megalon? | Deep Thought in the | |A mere abacus, mention it not ... | Hitchhicker's Guide | --------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul van de Graaf sdcsvax!sdcc3!ee161bep U. C. San Diego
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (08/11/85)
> After reading all this discussion about whether Coke has sugar or > corn syrup in it, and who bottles/makes Dr. Pepper; I chanced to > look at my can of D. P. today. To my surprise I saw Polyethylene > Glycol as the last ingredient! I know that ethylene glycol is that > sweet-tasting poisonous stuff that goes into anti-freeze. I also > seem to remember a recent report about a recall of some Austrian > or German wine, because it had ethylene glycol in it to make it > sweeter. I'm no chemist, but shouldn't polyethylene glycol be > somewhat similar in properties as ethylene glycol (ie. isn't it > toxic)? Doesn't polyethylene just mean many-ethylene? That's a good question, and I am certain that the true answer is buried in Dr. Pepper's proprietary information. However, I will take a stab at it... Polyethylene glycol (PEG) is not one compound, but is the name for a *group* of compounds which are condensation polymers of ethylene glycol. PEG is as different from the ethylene glycol monomer as polyethylene plastic is different from its ethylene monomer. While ethylene glycol is considered a toxic compound, the various PEG's are relatively non-toxic. PEG is FDA-approved and is both NF and USP registered for use in pharmaceuticals for internal use. PEG is differentiated by molecular weight, running from less than 400 to more than 6,000. PEG with a mw of 400 is viscous clear liquid with only a slight odor and taste. PEG with a mw of 6,000 is a white power which melts at around 60 deg C. PEG (in its various forms) is used as a lubricant, binder, solvent, stabilizer (as a humectant, primarily), etc. It's most common use in pharma- ceutical preparations is as a base for suppositories. :-) [This is true!] In fact, in our lab we use PEG under the tradename of Carbowax as a column packing for gas chromatographs. I chewed a little before posting this response and it tasted like a candle... Now why would PEG be in Dr. Pepper? 1. Not for taste purposes, nor to increase viscosity. 2. Not to lower the freezing point of the canned mixture, nor to stabilize the water content. 3. Not to make the stuff easier to swallow. :-) 4. Probably as a binder for the various flavoring and coloring ingedients so as to prevent their separation after initial formulation. 5. Less probably (but not absurd) to confuse any analytical instruments (gc, lc, ir, and uv) which might be used by competitors to ascertain the product formula. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York | | UUCP {decvax,dual,rocksanne,rocksvax,watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry | | {rice,shell}!baylor!/ | | VOICE 716/741-9185 syr!buf!/ | | TELEX {via WUI} 69-71461 ansbak: ELGECOMCLR | | | | "Have you hugged your cat today?" | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) (08/13/85)
> I'm no chemist, but shouldn't polyethylene glycol be somewhat similar in > properties as ethylene glycol (ie. isn't it toxic)? Doesn't polyethylene > just mean many-ethylene? [...] I'm sure I'm just raving about nothing, but > I would like someone to tell me why this stuff might be in Dr. Pepper. Oh, God. Not only am I actually *reading* net.coke, but I'm *posting* something to it? Have I no morals at all? Anyway, yes, "polyethylene" does indeed mean "many-ethylene". However, there is no reason to believe that the chemical (or physiological) properties of a polymer are at all related to those of the monomer. In most cases, they aren't. Random data from the Merk Index (9th ed) entry for Polyethelene Glycol (commonly called PEG or Carbowax): Liquid or solid (depending on n) polymers of the general formula H-(O-CH2-CH2)n-OH where n is >= 4. Will not support mold growth. PEG compounds are of low toxicity. LD-50 orally in rats on the order of 50g/Kg, depending on the particluar polymer (8 <= n <= 200). [LD-50 means the the dosage at which it is lethal to 50% of the animals to which it is fed; to get the kinds of doses they are talking about here, you would have to eat 5 Kg of the pure substance if you weigh 100 Kg]. Depending on the molecular weight (from about 400 to 6000), it can be a viscous liquid, a white free-flowing powder, or creamy-white flakes. Used as a lubricant for rubber molds and in metal-forming operations, in food and food packaging, in hair preperations and cosmetics in general. Since you are (rightfully) concerned about what goes in your mouth, you should be interested to know what goes in the other end as well; PEG is also used as a suppository base. By comparison, the Merk Index says the monomer, Ethylene Glycol, is a liquid, poisonous (LD-50 in humans 1.4 ml/kg), and used to make anti-freeze hydraulic brake fluids, electrolytic capacitors, inks, and as a stabilizer for soybean foam used to put out gasoline and oil fires. In summary, I don't know why they put PEG in Dr. Pepper, but I would suspect that the sugar in it is probably what you should be worrying about. For what it's worth, I happen to think that Dr. Pepper tastes better than any of the Colas (New, Old, Pepsi, Coke, whatever). I've always thought that the flavoring in it was prunes; anybody know for sure? It may sound disgusting, but next time you drink one, think real hard about what it tastes like and see if you think it's possible. -- Roy Smith <allegra!phri!roy> System Administrator, Public Health Research Institute 455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
ee161bep@sdcc3.UUCP (Paul Van de Graaf) (08/18/85)
In article <396@phri.UUCP> roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) writes: > In summary, I don't know why they put PEG in Dr. Pepper, but I would >suspect that the sugar in it is probably what you should be worrying about. >For what it's worth, I happen to think that Dr. Pepper tastes better than any >of the Colas (New, Old, Pepsi, Coke, whatever). I've always thought that the >flavoring in it was prunes; anybody know for sure? It may sound disgusting, >but next time you drink one, think real hard about what it tastes like and >see if you think it's possible. > >Roy Smith <allegra!phri!roy> As the original poster, I thank you for your response. Dr. Pepper does not however, contain prune juice. I was reading some book at a bookstore (I can't recall the title) the other day which, among other things, surmises the formulas for Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, and many other softdrinks. All you Coke fans out there might try to find a copy, as it talks about the history of the Coke formula and some of the changes made to it. As far as Dr. Pepper goes, it seems the magic prune-like flavor is caused by the lactic acid in the mix. In most other respects, the formula is pretty much like the other colas. Another interesting claim of the book is that few if any "colas" actually use cola nuts anymore! The author claims that the cola flavor is actually just a mix of vanilla, citus, and other simple flavorings. Sorry I can't remember the name of the book, but I'm sure the net will provide what my memory fails to. Cheers, Paul van de Graaf sdcsvax!sdcc3!ee161bep U. C. San Diego