kim@watsup.waterloo.edu (Kim Nguyen) (05/08/89)
I am seriously annoyed by the silly 100 kph speed limit on the 401. I have considered using a radar detector, but from what I've heard so far (if you get caught): - the radar detector gets confiscated - you get nailed with a fine for using one - you get nailed for speeding - you get demerit points - your insurance rates go up What have your experiences been with radar detectors? Can police stop you (if you're not speeding) if they see a radar detector sitting on your dash? What are the relevant laws? -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Kim Nguyen kim@watsup.waterloo.edu Systems Design Engineering -- University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
wheels@mks.UUCP (Gerry Wheeler) (05/08/89)
In article <9556@watcgl.waterloo.edu>, kim@watsup.waterloo.edu (Kim Nguyen) writes: > I have considered using a radar detector, but from what I've heard so > far (if you get caught): > ... > Can police stop > you (if you're not speeding) if they see a radar detector sitting on > your dash? What are the relevant laws? My understanding, not necessarily correct, is that the transport of a radar detector is illegal in Ontario. That is, you can't carry one from here to there, not even in your trunk, not even if it is not connected. Visitors from more liberal places have been advised to leave their detector at home, or check it some place before they enter the province. If that is so, then I would guess the police could certainly pull you over if they see one on your dashboard. I know for certain they will pull you over if they see you respond when they trigger the radar gun. (I.E. they are travelling with no radar, then they trigger the radar and watch for brake lights. If you brake, you lose.) This information comes directly from a friend's brother, who is a police officer. -- Gerry Wheeler Phone: (519)884-2251 Mortice Kern Systems Inc. UUCP: uunet!watmath!mks!wheels 35 King St. North BIX: join mks Waterloo, Ontario N2J 2W9 CompuServe: 73260,1043
bmacintyre@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Blair MacIntyre) (05/08/89)
In article <9556@watcgl.waterloo.edu> kim@watsup.waterloo.edu (Kim Nguyen) writes: >What have your experiences been with radar detectors? Can police stop >you (if you're not speeding) if they see a radar detector sitting on >your dash? What are the relevant laws? Gee ... you don't watch enough TV ... just put a hat over it!!! :-) ( well, it works in the movies, and we all know how much they emulate real life!!! :-) Blair -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-///-= = Blair MacIntyre, bmacintyre@watcgl.{waterloo.edu, UWaterloo.ca} \\\/// = = now appearing at the Computer Graphics Lab, U of Waterloo! \XX/ = = "Don't be mean ... remember, no matter where you go, there you are." BBanzai=
hazela@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (Jose Reynaldo Setti) (05/08/89)
In article <9556@watcgl.waterloo.edu> kim@watsup.waterloo.edu (Kim Nguyen) writes: >I am seriously annoyed by the silly 100 kph speed limit on the 401. I ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It seems to me that MTO data collections show that the average speed on 401 is over 100km/h. I am not sure about that value, but 110km/h is what comes to my mind. So, if you just follow the traffic speed you'll be going over the speed limit and unless the OPP decides to generate the world's biggest traffic jam they won't stop and fine some 3,000 drivers/hour... /jrs
sarathy@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Rajiv Sarathy) (05/08/89)
In article <9556@watcgl.waterloo.edu> kim@watsup.waterloo.edu (Kim Nguyen) writes: >I am seriously annoyed by the silly 100 kph speed limit on the 401. I >have considered using a radar detector, but from what I've heard so >far (if you get caught): > > - the radar detector gets confiscated > - you get nailed with a fine for using one > - you get nailed for speeding > - you get demerit points > - your insurance rates go up > >What have your experiences been with radar detectors? Can police stop >you (if you're not speeding) if they see a radar detector sitting on >your dash? What are the relevant laws? First of all, I don't think that this is the correct forum for a discussion of this type, so I've said follow-ups go to rec.autos (and changed the distribution to Ontario, because someone in California wouldn't really wan't to know about driving rules in Ontario). Secondly, not only "can they stop you (if you're not speeding) if they see a radar detector sitting on your dash", but they have now completed testing a new device which can be dubbed a "radar detector detector". As the dubbing implies, it gives the officer a signal if there's a vehicle with a radar detector installed -- on OR off! The device works by sending a particular frequency which causes the crystal in all radar detectors to resonate at a frequency which it (the detector detector) can detect. By pointing it in different directions, the officer can 'hone in' on a detector. Relevant laws? The Radio Act (I think that's what it's called) says that all frequencies are the Queen's property, and she grants you free access to certain (radio, television, wireless telephone) frequencies only. You must apply to receive ANY other frequency. Thus ALL scanners (the ones which can receive police, ambulance, etc.) signals are illegal, as are radar detectors. You must also apply for transmitting at ANY frequency (including radio and television). Thus, the police in Ontario have licences to broadcast and receive the frequencies that radar detectors use. However, the Transport and Communication Canada will not grant anyone else a licence to receive these signals. This brings up the question of enforcement. In Ontario, Quebec, and most Atlantic provinces, the provincial police (I guess the RCMP in the Atlantic prov's) enforce the law. In BC and Alta., nobody is enforcing the law, allowing anyone to use radar detectors there. I don't know what's happening in Manitoba. However, anywhere in Canada, no agency is going to charge you if you're using a scanner to receive police, ambulance, or aircraft frequencies, as long as you're not doing it for a commercial purpose. (ie. tow-truck operators are not allowed to receive police frequencies in order to rush to scenes of accidents before the police arrive to investigate). -- _____________________________________________________________________________ | Disclaimer: I'm just an undergrad. All views and opinions are therefore _ | | my own. /\ /\ /-----------------------------------oO(_)| | / \ / \ / NetNorth: sarathy@utorgpu | | Rajiv Partha Sarathy / \/ \/ sarathy@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca | | --------------------/ {uunet!attcan mnetor att pyramid}!utgpu!sarathy | |_____________________________________________________________________________|
lrbartram@watcgl.waterloo.edu (lyn bartram) (05/09/89)
In article <5880@watdcsu.waterloo.edu> hazela@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (Jose Reynaldo Setti) writes: > >It seems to me that MTO data collections show that the average speed >on 401 is over 100km/h. I am not sure about that value, but 110km/h >is what comes to my mind. So, if you just follow the traffic speed >you'll be going over the speed limit and unless the OPP decides to >generate the world's biggest traffic jam they won't stop and fine >some 3,000 drivers/hour... Just so you don't fall into the trap of thinking "If he does something wrong, that means i can ...": the OPP can and will stop *anyone* for exceeding the legal speeding limit, and that could be you doing 120/kph while everyone else is doing 140. In practice, i drive the 401 regularly between KW and Montreal at an average 120/kph (faster in Quebec, of course) and have never been stopped in the past 10 years.
kim@watsup.waterloo.edu (Kim Nguyen) (05/09/89)
In article <907@mks.UUCP> wheels@mks.UUCP (Gerry Wheeler) writes: >My understanding, not necessarily correct, is that the transport of a >radar detector is illegal in Ontario. That is, you can't carry one from >here to there, not even in your trunk, not even if it is not connected. >Visitors from more liberal places have been advised to leave their >detector at home, or check it some place before they enter the province. >If that is so, then I would guess the police could certainly pull you >over if they see one on your dashboard. A friend of mine doubts this line of reasoning. He says that a judge would throw the case out if you ever contested, since IF you were not exceeding the speed limit and you were not doing anything unlawful (weaving in and out), then the police officer had no reason to stop you. The justification: could the police stop ANYONE simply because they suspected they were using a radar detector? If they were empowered to do so, then they could justify stopping ANYONE, and for no particular reason... >I know for certain they will pull you over if they see you respond when >they trigger the radar gun. (I.E. they are travelling with no radar, >then they trigger the radar and watch for brake lights. If you brake, >you lose.) This information comes directly from a friend's brother, who >is a police officer. Aha! Radar detector technique tips! Yes, I knew that they sometimes do this randomly. Since the police do this, I would then assume that they are legally able to stop you for use of a radar detector (and thus my friend's above reasoning is invalidated). Aside: a police officer (friend of a friend) says that a rule of thumb used is to not stop cars going less than 120 kph, although I would watch out if I were alone on a stretch of highway... -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Kim Nguyen kim@watsup.waterloo.edu Systems Design Engineering -- University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
hjespersen@trillium.waterloo.edu (05/09/89)
In article <9556@watcgl.waterloo.edu> kim@watsup.waterloo.edu (Kim Nguyen) writes: >What have your experiences been with radar detectors? Can police stop >you (if you're not speeding) if they see a radar detector sitting on >your dash? What are the relevant laws? Be careful. Waterloo cops use instant-on radar all the time. I learned it the hard way (although I managed to hide the detector and talk him out of the demerit points). Radar detectors are illegal to have in your car (even in the trunk). If you are caught, there is a fine and they take your detector away. However, considering you can get detectors for as cheap as $90 in the US, it's not long before you're back on the possitive side (not even counting insurance savings). -- Hans Jespersen
djsalomon@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Daniel J. Salomon) (05/09/89)
In article <9556@watcgl.waterloo.edu> kim@watsup.waterloo.edu (Kim Nguyen) writes: >I am seriously annoyed by the silly 100 kph speed limit on the 401. THEN STAY OFF THE 401. ---------------------- Automobile accidents are the major cause of death, brain damage, and crippling among young adults, and excessive speed is a major contributor to highway accidents. Speeders endanger their lives and the lives of everyone else on the highway. Don't buy a radar detector, just buy a gun and blow your brains out. That way you will only be killing one person. Every year there is at least one multicar pile up on the 401 because people already drive too fast there. I am seriously pissed off at brainless, macho speeders. They should require IQ tests before giving driving licenses, not just driving tests. Do I sound like someone that lost two good friends in car accidents?
jmsellens@watdragon.waterloo.edu (John M. Sellens) (05/09/89)
Radar detectors are unsportsman-like. (Excessive) speed kills.
brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (05/09/89)
One of the reasons they make pocket radar detectors, as far as I know, is because you can hide them on your person. In some jurisdictions, the police need a much better excuse to perform a body search on your private person. (He said redundantly) Usually they have to reasonably believe you have drugs, or something. Thus if you take the pocket detector from your visor and put it in your pocket, they can't usually search your pocket. Anybody know what the rule is in Ontario? As far as I know they are allowed to search your CAR if they have reason to believe you have an illegal receiver in it, but I don't know what the rules are on your person. Seems to me it would make sense to put a sensor up under the hood, not on the dash. They look around your passenger compartment, but I have never had a cop check under the hood. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
kim@watsup.waterloo.edu (Kim Nguyen) (05/09/89)
In article <13670@watdragon.waterloo.edu> jmsellens@watdragon.waterloo.edu (John M. Sellens) writes: > >Radar detectors are unsportsman-like. I don't agree. Granted it's not full justification, but there must be something wrong with a law if most people don't adhere to it. (Or there is something wrong about the way we regard that law.) This goes for the 100 kph speed limit; and if police can use radar to enforce a law which most people do not agree with, then I feel it is fair to protect oneself by using a detector. >(Excessive) speed kills. Yup. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Kim Nguyen kim@watsup.waterloo.edu Systems Design Engineering -- University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
kim@watsup.waterloo.edu (Kim Nguyen) (05/09/89)
In article <13665@watdragon.waterloo.edu> djsalomon@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Daniel J. Salomon) writes: >Automobile accidents are the major cause of death, brain damage, and >crippling among young adults, and excessive speed is a major contributor >to highway accidents. Speeders endanger their lives and the lives of >everyone else on the highway. Don't buy a radar detector, just buy a >gun and blow your brains out. That way you will only be killing one >person. Every year there is at least one multicar pile up on the 401 >because people already drive too fast there. I agree that *excessive* speed is a contributor to accidents. I too have seen SO many crazed maniac drivers it bugs me to no end. I believe that the essence to safe driving is to be aware of the limits of yourself, of your car, and of other drivers. >I am seriously pissed off at brainless, macho speeders. They should >require IQ tests before giving driving licenses, not just driving tests. Somehow there should be some way of determining a potential driver's attitudes with regards to safety, consideration, and just plain common sense. If such a test existed, it would encompass the problem of excessive speeding. >Do I sound like someone that lost two good friends in car accidents? ... I guess so. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Kim Nguyen kim@watsup.waterloo.edu Systems Design Engineering -- University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (05/09/89)
I know this isn't can.politics, but it's worth remembering that amongst the worst kind of laws are the laws that everybody breaks. They make everybody a lawbreaker or scofflaw, and that means that effectively any citizen can be stopped by the police any time the police feel like it. Who comes to a full stop, for example? Nobody. So if the police feel like pulling you over, they can, any time. What judge would trust your word over an officer's that you didn't come to a full stop. The JUDGE never comes to a full stop, I'll bet. I will bet he speeds, too, as do the cops, on and off duty. We do have some laws that prohibit the police from abusing this, but it's very hard to prove. It also creates general disrespect for the law. All in all it's a very bad thing. In some police states, they make sure that everybody not only breaks the HTA, but the criminal code as well. It makes it very easy to get political prisoners on criminal charges. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (05/09/89)
In article <13665@watdragon.waterloo.edu> djsalomon@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Daniel J. Salomon) writes: >I am seriously pissed off at brainless, macho speeders. They should >require IQ tests before giving driving licenses, not just driving tests. Sounds like a good idea to me: let only the truly competent drivers onto the road... and then let them drive at any speed they like! Before the great 55 Mania hit the US, there were several states whose daytime speed limit was "a reasonable and safe speed". Literally; no numeric limit at all. -- Mars in 1980s: USSR, 2 tries, | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology 2 failures; USA, 0 tries. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
rsanders@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (Roger K. Sanderson P.Eng.) (05/10/89)
In article <3215@looking.UUCP> brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes: > >Anybody know what the rule is in Ontario? As far as I know they are allowed >to search your CAR if they have reason to believe you have an illegal >...<stuff deleted> >Seems to me it would make sense to put a sensor up under the hood, not on >the dash. They look around your passenger compartment, but I have never >had a cop check under the hood. I have heard the story about the Police pulling over a guy who flashed his brake lights when they zapped him with the radar gun. The cop said something to the gist of: "I know you have a Radar Detector, you can show me where it is hidden, or we can tow your car to the station and tear it aart till we find it." Sort of negates the hide-it-in-the-hood philosophy. -- Roger Sanderson P.Eng. VE3RKS : usenet: {clyde|decvax|ihnp4|tektronix|ubc-vision|utzoo}!watmath!watdcsu!rsanders bitnet: rsanders@watdcsu.UWaterloo.ca packet: VE3RKS @ VE3EUK
djsalomon@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Daniel J. Salomon) (05/11/89)
OK I'm sick of hearing from speeders who think that driving should be a bigger thrill than playing video games. Speed if you want. Just stop sending me mail.