kfl%mx.lcs.mit.edu@mc.lcs.mit.edu (08/27/86)
From: Lynn Gazis <SAPPHO@SRI-NIC.ARPA>
... It is hard to continue to believe in nonviolence when it is
met, as it often is, with violence, and when there doesn't seem to
be a practical nonviolent alternative. But I see that a mentality
of violence, war, and terrorism is perpetuating itself in this
world ...
I believe that the only justification for violence is self defense.
But that IS a justification. If people are not allowed to defend
themselves, then their rights are worthless since anyone is free to
violate those rights without fear of opposition.
Historically, the only pacifists who were not enslaved or killed
were those for whom someone less pacifistic was willing to fight.
You could argue that if only everyone on Earth (and beyond Earth)
was pacifistic, that pacifism would work. This is true, but it is
also true that if there was just one exception, just one person
willing to use violence, he could take over the world and enslave
everyone.
Also, if everyone WAS pacifistic, in practice it would be equivalent
to everyone believing that violence in self defense is justified, so
there wouldn't really be any difference.
I strongly dislike war. That is not to say that I can imagine
nothing worse. The Nazi death camps weren't war. The Soviet gulags
aren't war.
How can war be prevented? History and common sense show that there
is only one technique that works: To avoid war, be prepared for war.
In other words, I strongly disagree with your opinion about
violence. But I do support your contention that you should not be
compelled to pay taxes to help support the defense budget.
... Keith, when you say that something which is wrong is always
wrong do you mean that the only moral rules are absolute ones?
That's right.
Are there no actions you would consider moral or immoral that
depend on the situation?
Of course there are. If you see someone walking down the road
minding his own business it is wrong to shoot him. If you see someone
rapidly driving a van full of high explosives through a closed gate
towards a building with people inside, and reaching for a detonator on
the seat next to him, it is ok to shoot him.
And where do you derive your beliefs about right and wrong to
begin with?
From the idea that freedom is better than slavery, life is better
than death, and keeping one's property is better than being forced to
give it up to whoever threatens you. Read Ayn Rand for more details.
... I still don't understand what is going to make someone who
isn't libertarian become libertarian.
Knowledge of mankind, the world, and what libertarians advocate.
You seem to be saying that these beliefs are not just your own
whim or personal value judgment, but are somehow inherently true.
Why are they inherently true?
Why indeed? Why should 2 plus 2 be 4? Some things just are.
...Keith
-------