ANDY@SUSHI.STANFORD.EDU (08/25/86)
Our beloved moderator, Charles McGrew writes:
[who, me? - CWM]
If you think that legalized gambling will make the mob go away,
go look at who OWNS the casinos in Atlantic City. Look who takes
protection money from the prostitution houses in Nevada, look who
owns the big loan sharks. They won't go away; they're making too
damn much money to stop. You underestimate the mob: they're smart
and mean.
Atlantic City is an example of artificial scarcity. (Las Vegas is
also artificially scarce, but there is much less govt involvement.) A
better example would be gambling and Nevada. Are the slot-machines in
the service stations mob-run? What about the blackjack tables in most
restaurants?
I see nothing wrong with the Mob owning casinos in Atlantic City. If
they are committing real crimes, then they should be prosecuted for
those crimes.
"Mob" paranoia is more dangerous to most of us than the mob itself.
One example is the racketeering laws. Smart lawyers add RICO charges
to civil software licensing lawsuits. (Yes, Virginia, that adds a
powerful incentive to settle out of court. Imagine the publicity,
"MocroHard Rackeering Trial in Third Week.")
When the Mob is doing something illegal, like extortion, then that's
something to worry about. We have gone too far; it is illegal to be
in the Mob even if you haven't done anything. Try to defend yourself
against that.
-andy
-------
[ Lepke, Capone and thos other 'businessmen', wherever they are, must
be smiling at this. "I'm a legitimate businessman" is the mob's
answer to people who worry about their heavy-handed techniques.
As I understand it, organized crime owns most of the slots
companies, so I'd say yes to your questions on those.
I don't know much about the racketeering laws, so I can't comment
on those. I still stand by my original point that making gambling,
etc. legal will not make organized crime disappear. They own a lot of
stuff, and use their on clever, subtle techniques to ensure that
business stays good. - CWM]
-------Hibbert.pa@XEROX.COM (09/03/86)
Charles,
Why don't the people who are victimized by the mob go to the
police? "legitimate" businesses don't seem to have as much trouble
with organized crime. Is it just possibly because legitimate
businesses don't have anything to fear from the police?
Businesses that are already afoul of the law (prostitutes, gambling
establishments that want to offer more or different games than the law
allows, purveyors of illegal substances, etc.) can't go running to the
law when someone asks for protection money. Most businesses don't
fall prey because the criminals know that some intended victims will
go to the police. (As long as those victims don't expect to be
arrested when they get there.)
Chris
-------MCGREW@RED.RUTGERS.EDU (09/03/86)
Intimidation is the art of coercing someone without a visible weapon. Lets say you're a green grocer supplier. You ship your vegetables through a truck line. A man walks in to you one day, and says he'd like you to change shipping lines to the one he represents. You've heard that this shipping line may be 'dirty'. He looks you in the eye and says, "You know, all sorts of things go wrong with trucks. Flat tires, crashes, hijackings. I'll bet you that you have trouble with this." Oddly enough, you have. Several shipments have been damaged or spoiled. "I can assure you that if you ship with us, your stuff will get to market with no problems." He quotes you a price somewhat higher than you're paying now. After all, he says, all this safety and security costs money. He's just trying to make a buck. Have you been threatened? A matter of opinion. He's got a lot of implied muscle behind him. You want to take the risk that he won't use it? That's your decision to take. Can you go to the cops? What if the cops can't (or won't) do anything about it? I guess I'm just talking to no purpose, now. I'm not going to convince you. I guess I draw different conclusions from you. I still stand by the original point: that the mob won't magically disappear under any circumstances. Charles ------- -------
Hibbert.pa@XEROX.COM (09/03/86)
I agree, sometimes it's hard to prove coercion. In the situation you describe, you'd probably have to catch someone in the act of "fixing" one of your trucks, and then show some connection between the mechanic and the shipper. I also agree that the mob isn't going to magically disappear under any reasonably likely circumstances. I still would like you to address the question of whether the fact that prostitution (gambling, drug sales, etc.) are illegal has anything to do with their susceptibility to blackmail and racketeering. If not, is there some other reason why the Mob concentrates in these areas? Chris [ Hmmm... I agree with you that those who engage in illegal activities are more susceptable to intimidation, for the reasons you give. However, that doesn't mean that's the only people that get the "businessman" treatment. But do we just say, "sorry, you use drugs, you lose." Do we just leave the mob alone, and let them do what they like to people we (whoever 'we' are - I guess the police) judge not worth trying to help? - CWM] -------