WLIM@XX.LCS.MIT.EDU (11/03/86)
From: mcgeer%sirius.Berkeley.EDU@BERKELEY.EDU (Rick McGeer)
When did you last see a Greyhound bus or *any* airplane with *any*
graffiti?
Being neutral on the issue of whether statism is good or bad, I think
that the example you used is rather weak. The opportunity to
vandalize a bus or a plane is very restricted as 1) the driver/flight
crew is always around when there are passengers on board and 2) it is
easy to identify the culprit as the ride is long enough for the
passengers to know (or at least notice) each other--e,g. be able to
identify who is sitting where, etc. .
The presence of crew members is very important. Notice the common
occurrence of graffiti in rest-rooms (both in public and private
office buildings)?
When did you last hear of a shootout on a Greyhound bus? When did
you last hear of anyone refusing to ride Greyhound because they
thought that there lives were in danger?
What about the hijacking of planes? Are planes owned by states the
only ones that get hijacked?
It's only on state transit lines where there's any sort of a
problem with litter, graffiti and crime. Does anyone doubt that if
the IRT were in private hands tomorrow, that riding the NY subways
would be a safe, clean, pleasant experience?
Not clear, all your points seem to say is that we (Americans) or at
least those of us (again, Americans) living in New York have a habit
of vandalizing things (especially those owned by the state). Is the
problem universal? E.g. do you (Canadians) have such problems? What
about the English, the French, the Japanese, the Germans, the
Russians, the Chinese, the Singaporeans....?
Frankly, I would think that the statists would hide their heads in
shame at the experience of state-owned and state-operated mass
transit.
Need more *CONCRETE* evidence before anybody can agree with you on
this. It would seem that with the abundance of statist systems
currently existing in the world, it would not be difficult to gather
the evidence to support your point. Statists may actually see the
scarcity of such evidence (at least at this point in time) as
something to cheer about.
Willie
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-------mcgeer%sirius.Berkeley.EDU@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU (11/03/86)
To: WLIM@xx.lcs.mit.edu >Being neutral on the issue of whether statism is good or bad, ...give me a break.... > The opportunity to >vandalize a bus or a plane is very restricted That doesn't seem to apply to city busses, which are regularly vandalized. >The presence of crew members is very important. Notice the common >occurrence of graffiti in rest-rooms (both in public and private >office buildings)? I haven't seen all that much in private office buildings. There, the walls are cleaned with some regularity. >What about the hijacking of planes? Are planes owned by states the >only ones that get hijacked? I was talking about random crime, not acts of war carried out by governments. Anyway, there has been very little hijacking in the US -- and hijack prevention is the preserve of airports, which are mostly state-run. >Not clear, all your points seem to say is that we (Americans) or at >least those of us (again, Americans) living in New York have a habit >of vandalizing things (especially those owned by the state). No, I said rather more than that. I said that crime and graffiti are only a problem in publically-controlled places. They are *NOT* problems on privately-controlled conveyances and parks, because there, someone gives enough of a damn to stop crime and vandalism before it starts. >Need more *CONCRETE* evidence before anybody can agree with you on >this. It would seem that with the abundance of statist systems >currently existing in the world, it would not be difficult to gather >the evidence to support your point. Statists may actually see the >scarcity of such evidence (at least at this point in time) as >something to cheer about. Well, statists are pretty dim-witted to start with, so I wouldn't be surprised to see one cheering his own execution. But if you really need more evidence than I have provided, go across Technology Square at oh, say, midnight or so, climb on the T, and ride around for awhile. To the Common, say. Or hop on the IRT and ride north through Manhattan's West Side. Loiter around the stations just above 115th, say. If you come back alive, you'll have the evidence you need. -- Rick -------