hes@ecsvax.UUCP (Henry Schaffer) (07/18/85)
At an AT&T presentation the speaker said that all of the AT&T computers sold have an "Open Architecture". Is this so? (When I asked him about it after the session, he said he thought it meant that you were allowed to hook up your own terminals, not that you were told anything about the bus or other internals.) --henry schaffer
res@ihuxn.UUCP (Rich Strebendt @ AT&T Information Systems - Indian Hill West; formerly) (07/20/85)
> At an AT&T presentation the speaker said that all of the AT&T > computers sold have an "Open Architecture". Is this so? (When > I asked him about it after the session, he said he thought it > meant that you were allowed to hook up your own terminals, not > that you were told anything about the bus or other internals.) > --henry schaffer There is a complete set of documentation available for purchase (seven volumes, in total) which present information which allow you to design a circuit pack to plug into either a 3B2 or a 3B5 (also applies to the 3B15) and develop a driver which can be installed on the appropriate system to talk to your board. I am sorry that I do not have the select codes at hand just now, but they are listed in the document catalog. Rich Strebendt ...!ihnp4!iwsl6!res
cwd@cuae2.UUCP (Chris Donahue) (07/23/85)
I have replied by mail to this question a few times but this time I will post to everyone. AT&T supports "Open Architecture" for the 3B2 and 3B5 Computers. When we get the info. the UNIX PC will be added to the list. What do we define as "Open Architecture"? The ability to assist/support the development of additional hardware in the form of add-ons or replacements for parts we supply (such as disk drives). Also included in this is the development of new device drivers and system modules. Who is eligible? OEM and VAR customers of AT&T. Why? Detailed system schematics and access to all system source code (including most firmware) is done under non-disclosure with companies that have source licenses. In some cases the source license is not necessary. OEMs and VARs have the expertise to do this type of development without massive support and public domain publishing of design documents. Besides, that's how they earn their keep and how AT&T can enter markets that VARs understand. What do we offer? Courses and documentation on how to write device drivers and design I/O cards. Documentation on low level development tools is available also. My group provides consultation to VARs and OEMs. We answer their questions, provide needed items, and do what needs to be done to assist in their developments. Today's emphasis? The 3B2 family. We have all the aforementioned items available for the 3B2. The 3B5 comes second but there are difficulties supporting the product due to the nature of the I/O card design. (We produce special gate arrays that exist on each card). The UNIX PC will have similar documentation and courses available in the future. (Yes, I wish we were ready now). I hope that answers your question. By the way, Ducommun Data Systems and UNICORE (two of our master VARs) provide similar support for their VARs. Chris Donahue AT&T Info. Sys. Application Engineering
cdl@mplvax.UUCP (Carl Lowenstein) (07/26/85)
In article <1116@ihuxn.UUCP> res@ihuxn.UUCP (Rich Strebendt @ AT&T Information Systems - Indian Hill West; formerly) writes: > >There is a complete set of documentation available for purchase (seven >volumes, in total) which present information which allow you to design >a circuit pack to plug into either a 3B2 or a 3B5 (also applies to the >3B15) and develop a driver which can be installed on the appropriate >system to talk to your board. Are you speaking of things like "3b2/300 Computer Feature and Interface Design Manual" Select Code 305-492? I ordered one of these in March, and it was back-ordered with no predicted delivery date. -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {ihnp4|decvax|akgua|dcdwest|ucbvax} !sdcsvax!mplvax!cdl
cwd@cuae2.UUCP (Chris Donahue) (07/31/85)
> Are you speaking of things like "3b2/300 Computer Feature and Interface > Design Manual" Select Code 305-492? I ordered one of these in March, and > it was back-ordered with no predicted delivery date. > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {ihnp4|decvax|akgua|dcdwest|ucbvax} !sdcsvax!mplvax!cdl If you ordered one of these, you haven't received it because of a backlog. It is restricted to Value Added Resellers of AT&T only. My group controls the distribution of that particular document (because we support what is done with it). I guess you didn't read my article defining "open architecture" in the eyes of AT&T. Sorry, we are unable to support anyone who wants to develop I/O feature cards. We have to restrict ourselves to VARs. The design of a 3B2 I/O feature card is MUCH more complex than designing a card for a PC, so it requires alot more support resources. Chris Donahue AT&T Info. Sys. Application Engineering
kevin@lasspvax.UUCP (Kevin Saunders) (08/02/85)
In article <395@cuae2.UUCP> cwd@cuae2.UUCP (Chris Donahue) replies to: >> Are you speaking of things like "3b2/300 Computer Feature and Interface >> Design Manual" Select Code 305-492? I ordered one of these in March, and with: >I guess you didn't read my article defining "open architecture" >in the eyes of AT&T. Sorry, we are unable to support anyone who wants to >develop I/O feature cards. We have to restrict ourselves to VARs. Does this mean you *won't* send the man a manual? It seems it's been delayed just because he's not "kosher" . . . It sounded as if Mr. Donahue's interfacing needs were rather academic/personal... but even if not, if people are willing to take the risk of stuffing an "off-brand" board into their machine, developed without AT&T handholding, why not allow hardware folks to obtain the manuals? I pray the UNIXPC architecture will be OPEN. Compare Macintosh (or more to the point, "SLisa") & PC memory upgrade costs for a clue to why it *should* be that way . . . Consumers notice these little details, like having to undergo a walletectomy for minor upgrades. Tandy & (maybe) Apple learned this lesson the hard way: Nothing is more useless than a bus without cheap boards to stuff in it. Sinc, Kevin Eric Saunders
ignatz@aicchi.UUCP (Ihnat) (08/03/85)
In article <385@cuae2.UUCP>, Chris Donahue of AT&T Info. Sys. Application Engineering posts: >> Are you speaking of things like "3b2/300 Computer Feature and Interface >> Design Manual" Select Code 305-492? I ordered one of these in March, and >> it was back-ordered with no predicted delivery date. >> carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego >> {ihnp4|decvax|akgua|dcdwest|ucbvax} !sdcsvax!mplvax!cdl >> >If you ordered one of these, you haven't received it because of a backlog. >It is restricted to Value Added Resellers of AT&T only. My group controls >the distribution of that particular document (because we support what is >done with it). I guess you didn't read my article defining "open architecture" >in the eyes of AT&T. Sorry, we are unable to support anyone who wants to >develop I/O feature cards. We have to restrict ourselves to VARs. The >design of a 3B2 I/O feature card is MUCH more complex than designing a card >for a PC, so it requires alot more support resources. I'm afraid there's a really basic and potentially terminal problem here. I agree that, particularly in these hectic early days, I wouldn't expect AT&T to hand-hold anyone who dreamed of designing a 3B2 I/O feature card and making their fortune. BUT a more basic attitude, which has become more prevalent with AT&T's entry into the competetive market, is displayed by the attitude of restricting information: "restricted to Value Added Resellers of AT&T only..." Also, they make the decision that, because a 3B2 feature card is complex, and requires more support resources, the information on how the card operates is restricted. This, incidentally, is *not* just an attitude that Chris developed, or even his group; it's reflected in any dealings you have with AT&T these days. A friend of mine bought a 3B2/300 recently; in the course of setting it up, he discovered that unplugging one of the peripherals (I believe it was the XM connector?) destroyed the format on the hard disk. No problem, normally; but... AT&T maintained that the format program was only available to their own technicians. Not even VAR's. Now, he didn't even have to go to excptional means to trash the disk; and he's supposed to pay, as an individual, normal field support fees just to reformat a DISK?? Hell, most small business would balk at that type of dependence! (They did, for both the IBM PC and the DEC Rainbow, remember...) He can't even BUY the damn thing! More generally, if the software were totally bug-free, then I, as a person who usually gets stuck with making a box get up and stay up, would never care about how the system works. Practically, Unix(Tm and etc.) is *not* a mature operating system. All of us have had to either scan through source code--for the kernel, and utilities--to find out why something broke, if we were lucky enough to be at a site that had a source license; or expend hours of sweat in adb/sdb if not. Wanting to know how the system works, and what it's doing, is more than just a desire for abstract knowledge. And if the bus is too complicated, people either won't be able to design cards, or they won't be any good, right? I *want* the 3B2 to make it. It's got great possibilities. But if AT&T doesn't learn from the mistakes of other manufacturers--if they don't price their machines and software competetively; if they don't decide reasonably which information and utilities can be distributed--then they're, regrettably, going to eat a lot of dust before they can elbow with the industry leaders. -- Dave Ihnat Analysts International Corporation (312) 882-4673 ihnp4!aicchi!ignatz