warren@pluto.UUCP (Warren Burstein) (01/20/86)
> Hmmm... I'll have to read [the Dragon Riders of Pern] books again. > I didn't at all catch the > implication that when dragons mated, the 'riders did also. Was I > exceedingly obtuse both times I read the books, or did others also > not make this connection/assumption? > - Joel ({allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!oyster) There doesn't seem to be any mention of the sexual habits of green and blue riders in either of the trilogies, but there is a gay couple in Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern - blue Rogeth's K'lon and green Granth's A'murry. Sh'gall, the Fort Weyrleader disproves: "Fully male and hold-bred, Sh'gall had never developed any compassion or understanding of the green and blue riders and their associations. (p71) I don't know if all green riders were homosexual or bisexual. Maybe there was some way to keep a green dragon from going into heat. I imagine any brown or blue rider who wanted to avoid the problem could manage to keep his dragon on the ground or out of town when a green flew. What I find more interesting is in Dragondrums where Menolly and Sebell find themselves caught up in their fire lizards's mating. They were among the first to have fire lizards so theirs may have been the first to mature. I guess Pern was never the same. I don't know if Anne McCaffrey really considered all this when she created Pern. If anyone has heard any comments of hers on this topic, I'd like to hear them. While mentioning Moreta, has anyone in this group commented on the fact that the Ballad of Moreta's Ride that is sung in Dragonsinger (p119) has Moreta, dying of the disease, flying @i(between) with Orlith, while in the book Moreta and Leri's Holth are lost @i(between)?
warren@pluto.UUCP (Warren Burstein) (01/21/86)
(Frederick M. Avolio) writes: > ... since "Greens are rendered > sterile through a sex-linked disability triggered by chronic use of > firestone," (which is why Queens never chew firestone) might it not affect > them further? In "Dragonquest", F'nor is stabbed by T'reb, a green rider whose dragon is about to mate. p15-18 In "The White Dragon", Mirrim's Path has been proddy for some time. p197 Menolly made an exasperated sound. "If Path doesn't fly soon, Mirrim, you're not going to be on terms with anyone!" Surprised, Jaxom looked at Mirrim, who was flushing deeply red. "Oh ho, Path's ready to be flown! That'll sort out some of your high-headed notions!" He couldn't resist crowing at her dismay. "Has Path shown a preference? Ha! Look at her blush! Never thought I'd see the day when you'd lose the loss of your tongue. And you'll be losing something more soon...." And we think teenagers on Earth have trouble with sex. -- The Maxwell R. Mayhem Institute for Quandary Requiem and Maternal Sciamachy Accept no substitutes.
ccastkv@gitpyr.UUCP (KEITH VAGLIENTI) (01/22/86)
For purposes of a ballad it would be considered more heroic for the two
main characters, Moreta and Orlith, to go between at the same time. Since
Leri and Orlith went between as soon as they were no longer needed it doesn't
really counter history and it does seem to work better.
--
Keith Conrad Vaglienti
Georgia Insitute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!ccastkv
In no way should my remarks be considered to reflect the opinions and/or
policies of the Georgia Institute of Technology nor GIT's Office of
Computing Services. Put another way, its-a not my bosses fault, monkey boy!friedman@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU (01/22/86)
> Now, since only males impress dragons with the exception of the > queens who impress females, the only case of the possibility of men > getting .. shall we say "worked up?" ... over other men would be in the > case of green dragons going into heat. Is there an instance of that > mentioned in any of the books? Yes. Check out "The White Dragon", the scene in which Jaxom and Ruth are in training at the Weyr (was it Fort?). A green rises to mate, and is pursued by blues and browns; the bronzes don't bother to pursue a mere green. Ruth is uninterested; the weyrling master begins to suspect that Ruth will not develop sexually. Check the behavior of the riders of the green and the pursuing male dragons. The scene is described very discretely, but it implies sexual activity among the riders. There is also a scene involving Mirrim, the young woman who accidentally impresses the green Path. She takes some teasing about what will happen to her when her green rises to mate. There are also some scenes in which she is very testy as the green approaches her time to rise. There are other scenes involving testy riders of greens nearing their time.
li@uw-vlsi.ARPA (Phyllis Li) (02/01/86)
There has been a lot of material about how terrible sex is in literature. I want to point out that there are writers that can use sex as a pertinant part of their charcter development; and as sex began everybody (well, now almost everybody :) ), and is such a big part of each person's development and self-image (I mean who thinks of themselves as neuter?! OK, other than the neutered... :) ) that I think it natural to include it as part of a charactization. Yes, there is trash out there, but then there is trash in every genre... Two writers that I will point out are Tanith Lee and Eric Lustbader. Neither do gratuitous sex, however, neither, I believe, has a book without sex in it. Arguments? :). Of course if one is distasteful about the entire subject, well I can't help you. However, for those that do enjoy sensuous characters but are disgusted with those that just stick 'em in without a rhyme or reason, do try these authors. I recommend anything by Lustbader. Lee you have to be a little more selective; but *Sabella*, the Birthgrave series, any of the Master series (oh, a Demon Lord without sex?! Horror!!), or (my favorite) *Cyrion* are good *books*. There are probably some I have either forgotten or don't know about (like her latest or the Silver Metal Lover) so I will say that it isn't complete. All I know is that I LIKED the ones I mentioned. Liralen -- A closed mouth gathers no foot. USENET: ihnp4!akgua!sb6!fluke!uw-vlsi!li ARPA: li@uw-vlsi.arpa
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (02/05/86)
Tanith Lee perhaps, but Lustbader? You must be kidding! All I read was
"The Ninja", but that was packed to overflowing with not only gratuitous
but silly and insulting sex scenes. Insulting because the only way to
reconcile them with Lustbader's obvious talent was to assume that they
were deliberately inserted to make a bestseller, and most of us don't
like being treated as manipulable sources of money rather than as readers.
Firing a mock-gun dildo water pistol up someone's cunt in a lesbian prostitution
scene essentially unrelated to the novel isn't gratuitous???
Tim Maroney
{sun,ihnp4,frog}!hoptoad!timli@uw-vlsi.ARPA (Phyllis Li) (02/12/86)
In reaction to my saying that there is good sex in some literature and giving both Tanith Lee and Eric Lustbader as examples of this... In article <489@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >Tanith Lee perhaps, but Lustbader? You must be kidding! All I read was >"The Ninja", but that was packed to overflowing with not only gratuitous >but silly and insulting sex scenes. Insulting because the only way to >reconcile them with Lustbader's obvious talent was to assume that they >were deliberately inserted to make a bestseller, and most of us don't >like being treated as manipulable sources of money rather than as readers. >Firing a mock-gun dildo water pistol up someone's cunt in a lesbian >prostitution scene essentially unrelated to the novel isn't gratuitous??? > > Yes, Lustbader. If you weren't so caught up in the ... uhm... action, you would have noticed that that scene was essential in the development of the character of Gelda, in the development of her charcter as one that has, essentially, always thought of herself as a mirror to others. Also, the style of that scene is completely different from the sensuous scenes of Nick. Here, the viewpoint is Gelda's and the viewpoint is clinical, completely detached, emotionally untouched and untouchable, even as the sex itself is occuring. Finally, the structure of the scene is much the same as the structure of the murder scene that she describes later. I believe that Lustbader wrote up to his abilities with that specific scene. Also, *The Ninja* isn't Lustbader's science fiction. His Dia San series is wonderful, and the characters are fully fleshed out. You cannot seperate his charaters from their sex or their sexual actions without taking a good deal out of the characters. I actually think that it is more lifelike than the authors that ignore sex completely, because a person's sex is a very basic and essential part of their personality, shows much of their abilities or disabilitis in dealing with relationships and can exhibit tendencies towards life in general. No, I am not saying that sex is the *most* important thing in everybody's lives, but, to most, it does take up a substantial piece of it. Liralen Li -- A closed mouth gathers no foot. USENET: ihnp4!akgua!sb6!fluke!uw-vlsi!li ARPA: li@uw-vlsi.arpa