csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) (07/20/85)
In article <945@mtgzz.UUCP> dmt@mtgzz.UUCP (d.m.tutelman) writes: > - The piano sounds weren't really good on either instrument. A friend of mine came up with a really good electric piano on my Juno. I still don't know how. > Both have equally >useless portamento (it's a slide all right, but hardly from the >previous melody note.) Try "Poly 2" mode, it's a little better... -- Charles Forsythe CSDF@MIT-VAX "Don't get bogged down with details, just eat the stupid peice of paper." -Rev. Wang Zeep
dmt@mtgzz.UUCP (d.m.tutelman) (07/24/85)
From the response to my posting on "Buying a first synthesizer", I'm not the only one who spent time torn between the Korg DW-6000 (hereinafter "Korg") and the Roland Juno 106 (hereinafter "Juno"). Because of the interest, here's a bit more detail on the differences I noticed, and why I picked the Juno. SOUND: OK, let's start where the rubber meets the road. The Korg is a brand new digital (partly) design, the Juno a fairly standard analog machine. The Korg has eight digital waveforms to select from, desgined to imitate certain instruments. Moreover, the Korg assigns two of those digital oscillators to each of its six voices (truly multi-timbral). The Juno has the usual triangle and square/pulse waves. The Korg has 36 parameters for each preset; the Juno has under 20. Obviously, the Korg must be capable of better sound than the Juno. Right? Well, we had trouble agreeing with that conclusion, logical as it seems. We did A-B tests in two different stores that had both instruments. In each case, the Juno sounded fuller and richer (the technical term seems to be "fatter"). Even after I twiddled the store's mixing board to beef up the Korg's volume, that conclusion remained. On specific types of sounds: - Sustained sounds (brass, string, organ) were considerably fatter on the Juno. - The bell sounds (xylophone, vibraphone) were probably truer on the Korg (as we ought to expect). However, my boys found the Juno sounds more pleasing esthetically; if you're getting a synthesizer rather than an electronic xylophone, the Juno is the choice. - The piano sounds weren't really good on either instrument. I wouldn't buy either if I wanted a portable electronic piano. Therefore the Korg's superiority here was a don't-care in the purchase decision. I'd like to try one thing sometime that didn't occur to me in the showroom. The Korg uses "Chorus" as a preset parameter; "chorus" is a state of the machine in the Juno. I didn't check to see whether the Korg's presets had "chorus" set OFF, but we like it ON for the Juno (for all the presets we've tried both ways). If it's OFF in the Korg's presets, turning it ON might improve the sound. Summary of sound: the Korg is a little more accurate in percussive sounds, but less full and pleasing in all sounds. Juno a slight winner. RECOMMENDATIONS: I heard the following stories from [some obviously biased] sources: - "The Korg has the greatest sound in its price range" - from a salesman who sells Korg and not Roland. - "The Juno is much easier to adjust for a beginner, or for anyone in live performance" - from (1) a teenage neighbor who makes her spending money playing her Juno with a band, (2 & 3) two salesmen in shops that carry both instruments. Summary of recommendations: Juno has more recommendations from more credible sources, in this statistically insignificant sample. OTHER: The similarity of price is as striking as the difference in almost everything else. Both instruments go for about $800, with the Juno about $30 more expensive in each store that carried both. Both have a full five octaves of full-size, unweighted keys, with neither pressure nor velocity sensitivity.* Both have equally rich MIDI interfaces. Both have equally useless portamento (it's a slide all right, but hardly from the previous melody note.) Here the similarity ends. (* The Korg-only salesman said that they're about to come out with a pressure-sensitive keyboard, that they will offer to retrofit for existing owners. I found that an unlikely story, and could find no confirmation of it elsewhere.) The only place where Korg exceeds Juno is that it has a catalog of presets printed right on it. This is a convenience the Juno missed. In fact, the Juno doesn't even have the presets listed in the manual. They give you a blank sheet, so you can fill in what YOU think the preset sound like. The advantages of the Juno that decided it (apart from the sound): - Much easier to set parameters in real-time, to match room|band|request. That's because there are fewer parameters and a slide control for each. (Also makes it better for teaching a novice what the various controls do to the sound.) - 128 presets, as opposed to 64 for the Korg. - Transpose control. POSTSCRIPT: We "decided" to buy the Juno, and the shop where we'd buy it. I still wanted to try out the chorus on the Korg, but only because I found it so hard to accept the non-intuitive (to me) conclusions about the sound. Then we saw a classified ad for a hardly-used Juno 106 at a hard-used price. End of search! Dave Tutelman Physical - AT&T Information Systems Holmdel, NJ 07733 Logical - ...ihnp4!mtuxo!mtgzz!dmt Audible - (201)-834-2895
chriss@midas.UUCP (Chris Shirkoff) (07/26/85)
In article <424@mit-vax.UUCP> csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) writes: > >A friend of mine came up with a really good electric piano on my Juno. >I still don't know how. > I have experimented with various electric (and acoustic) piano patches on my JX-3P. The secret, at least with my box, is to detune one of the DCO's slightly on the attack. Not enough, and the sound is two-dimen- sional. Too much, and you've got a rubber instrument. This isn't everything, but it may get you started on the search for that "perfect" piano patch. -- --------------------------------------- UUCP: tektronix!midas!chriss USMAIL: Chris Shirkoff Tektronix, Inc., PO Box 4600 MS 94-442 Beaverton, Oregon 97075
csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) (07/27/85)
In article <330@midas.UUCP> chriss@midas.UUCP (Chris Shirkoff) writes: >I have experimented with various electric (and acoustic) piano patches >on my JX-3P. The secret, at least with my box, is to detune one of the >DCO's slightly on the attack. Ah, to HAVE a detunable DCO. I bought the Juno-106 for sound and ease of programming. Unfortunately, there are a couple of parameters it just doesn't have. A separately tunable DCO (from the main) is one. Oh well. -- Charles Forsythe CSDF@MIT-VAX Wang Zeep:"Lord Fred, how can I show them you are the True God?" Lord Fred:"Because I said I am." Wang Zeep:"Seriously." Lord Fred:"Look, it works for every other religion."