malik@galaxy.DEC (Karl Malik ZK01-1/F22 1-1440) (12/09/85)
Subj; net.music.synth to IRCAM? I personally would love to be involved in a discussion with the IRCAM folks. BUT, I'm not so sure that our discussions would be of much interest to them. IRCAM has some impressive musicians and technicians working there. They certainly aren't going to be interested in questions about how to hook up your new Casio to a drum machine. NO sarcasm intended here - I mean it literally - What is the reasoning behind forwarding net.music.synth to IRCAM? Can you imagine a mutually satisfying dialog developing? Possibly, a separate newsgroup should be established. As I said, I *love* the idea of a dialog with IRCAM, but I fear that the (useful to us) theoretically/aesthetically/technically trival discussions of - 'What synth under $1k to buy?', or 'Has anyone played on a Juno-106?' - will leave them flat. Can we rise to the challenge? I think the rewards would be great. - Karl Malik Digital Equipment Corp. Nashua, NH
keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) (12/11/85)
In article <1652@decwrl.UUCP> malik@galaxy.DEC (Karl Malik ZK01-1/F22 1-1440) writes: > I personally would love to be involved in a discussion with >the IRCAM folks. > > BUT, I'm not so sure that our discussions would be of much >interest to them. > > IRCAM has some impressive musicians and technicians working >there. They certainly aren't going to be interested in questions >about how to hook up your new Casio to a drum machine. I haven't been terribly interested in that kind of stuff either. > NO sarcasm intended here - I mean it literally - What is >the reasoning behind forwarding net.music.synth to IRCAM? Can you >imagine a mutually satisfying dialog developing? I can imagine it, but then I also imagined something a little better in net.music.synth once it split of from net.music. At least we've provided a means to bypass the 'favorite group of the week' type messages, but we are left with little but 'favorite instrument of the week' messages. When net.music.synth first split off, I tried to inspire some discussions on A/D conversion, signal processing algorithms, etc. and found that I virtually had to carry on such a discussion with myself. > Possibly, a separate newsgroup should be established. As >I said, I *love* the idea of a dialog with IRCAM, but I fear that >the (useful to us) theoretically/aesthetically/technically trival >discussions of - 'What synth under $1k to buy?', or 'Has anyone >played on a Juno-106?' - will leave them flat. Just like it has been leaving me flat since net.music.synth split off from net.music. > Can we rise to the challenge? I think the rewards would >be great. > - Karl Malik Ditto. Wish we all had TMS32020 based DSP boards in our P.C.'s so we could trade sig-proc programs and try various algorithms etc. Maybe we could start of by discussing some of the various digital filter algorithms, favorites etc. Sampling techniques (hardware) etc. Keith Doyle # {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd # cadovax!keithd@ucla-locus.arpa
alan@sun.uucp (Alan Marr) (12/11/85)
In article <1652@decwrl.UUCP> malik@galaxy.DEC (Karl Malik ZK01-1/F22 1-1440) writes: > > I personally would love to be involved in a discussion with >the IRCAM folks. > >.... They certainly aren't going to be interested in questions >about how to hook up your new Casio to a drum machine. In fact some of the IRCAM researchers are interested in Apple Macs, so your assumption, while probable, may be unfounded. Other "serious" computer music researchers are interested in MIDI and have made MIDI boards for Suns. I am in favour of feeding net.music.synth to Europe. There are other computer music sites besides IRCAM but I don't know which ones are connected to Usenet. net.music.synth has a lower drivel quotient than most net groups. > Can we rise to the challenge? I think the rewards would >be great. --- {ucbvax,decwrl}!sun!amarr "Extraordinary how potent cheap music is." Noel Coward
chris@cornell.UUCP (Christopher F. Harrison) (12/12/85)
In article <1652@decwrl.UUCP> malik@galaxy.DEC (Karl Malik) writes: > > I personally would love to be involved in a discussion with >the IRCAM folks. BUT, I'm not so sure that our discussions would be of much >interest to them. Karl, I hope you won't take my criticisms to heart, because I know where you and many others are coming from. This newsgroup has served a purpose for alot of people in need of the type of information you speak of below. > IRCAM has some impressive musicians and technicians working >there. They certainly aren't going to be interested in questions >about how to hook up your new Casio to a drum machine. I'm not interested either, but those impressive tech.s and artists might be interested in WHY you bothered to buy the Casio (ie-what appealed to your ear), let alone hook it to a drum machine. Music synthesis is a wide subject area, not just a term describing an IC chip with piano keys soldered onto it. > NO sarcasm intended here - I mean it literally - What is >the reasoning behind forwarding net.music.synth to IRCAM? Can you >imagine a mutually satisfying dialog developing? I have unsubscribed once from this newsgroup, and was about to do it again(I'm under the impression that I'm the only one on the net who plays a memorymoog plus). I've submitted a few articles asking for info, but they might as well be black-holed for all the response I received. Now I finally see a reason to continue subscribing, and I believe that this is just what the doctor ordered for a (in my opinion) stale newsgroup. I think you can understand this reasoning; there are alot of CS students as well as engineers and others directly or indirectly involved with personal, professional, and technical research in this subject. Alot of them have stayed shy due to the restricted nature of the articles, i.e.- price surveys, machine specific midi info., and my Axe is better than yours articles. How many general interest articles are there? I could get heavily entrenched in the subject of music and emotion, what sends the chill up the spine, and is there a way to tap into a composer's music-generating brain waves, to name one. I've always been intrigued by music-related research, and the exchange of ideas could be quite active if this channel of communication is opened. At any rate, this is not net.my.synth.is.better.than.your.synth, nor is it net.midi.interface, it's net.music.synth, and I feel the name qualifies the IRCAM much more than a programmer who plays a casio for fun and wants to conduct a price survey. If people will watch the amount of drivel that gets posted we won't get too swamped, and if the subject matter stabilizes the same way that the present garbage has, your updated kill file can take care of things pretty well.
mjm@abic.UUCP (Mark Medovich) (12/13/85)
> > Ditto. Wish we all had TMS32020 based DSP boards in our P.C.'s so we > could trade sig-proc programs and try various algorithms etc. > Maybe we could start of by discussing some of the various digital filter > algorithms, favorites etc. Sampling techniques (hardware) etc. > > Keith Doyle > # {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd > # cadovax!keithd@ucla-locus.arpa Good idea Keith, I'll start! Adaptive Delta Modulation seems to be a nice idea, but I've found that no manufacturer is using this technique with the exception of Delta Lab Inc. My impression is that the sample frequency is a function of the slope of the input, (and hence, d(-)/dt?). Can you tell me more? Also, if the sample frequency is not constant, are there algorithms(theorms) to handle frequency variance. The only thing I've seen (formally) is an article in last quarters IEEE Acoustics, Speech, and Signal processing on sliding window covariant transversal filtering. Though interesting, the article didn't go into the covariant algorithm in detail. Further, it only considered the case of linear variance(in time). I think algorithms of this sort will reduce processing time and conserve memory.
mark@apple.UUCP (Mark Lentczner) (12/14/85)
[]
A/D and D/A discussions? TMS32020 programs? Filtering tricks and
treats? Bizarre synthesis methods for comptuers? The Math behind
really fast FFTs? GREAT! I LOVE THIS STUFF! LETS DISCUSS IT AND
SEND IT TO IRCAM!!!!
-Mark Lentczner
ADG Sound Group
Apple Computer, Inc.
20525 Bandley Drive, MS:22Y
Cupertino, CA 95014
mark@apple.CSNET
{dual,ios,voder,nsc}!apple!mark.UUCP
--
--Mark Lentczner
Apple Computer
UUCP: {nsc, dual, voder, ios}!apple!mark
CSNET: mark@Apple.CSNETbob@ulose.UUCP ( Robert Bismuth ) (12/14/85)
> > I have unsubscribed once from this newsgroup, and was about to do > it again(I'm under the impression that I'm the only one on the net who > plays a memorymoog plus). I've submitted a few articles asking for info, but > they might as well be black-holed for all the response I received. > Well, I suppose this response is a bit of a flame response ... *sorry*. I have to both agree and disagree with this posting. While I too think it would be very good to have ircam able to read and post to this newsgroup, I think that this posting was a little too hard on this group. For example: I have posted several requests for information and received many responses, most of which I have been able to put to good use. However, I will conceed that perhaps that is due to my willingness to declare myself a buffoon and ask simple questions regarding events in my everyday musical life. > At any rate, this is not net.my.synth.is.better.than.your.synth, nor is > it net.midi.interface, it's net.music.synth, and I feel the name qualifies > the IRCAM much more than a programmer who plays a casio for fun and wants > to conduct a price survey. If people will watch the amount of drivel that > gets posted we won't get too swamped, and if the subject matter stabilizes > the same way that the present garbage has, your updated kill file can take > care of things pretty well. This is a little harsh. While I don't exactly play a casio, I do play music for enjoyment - like many others on the net. I am not, and don't want to be, a professional. What is referred to here as "drivel" is just as important as the requested in-depth theory and research discussions. Hearing the views of others on current products/standards, performance/recording techniques/equip- ment, or the like, to those of us on budgets, is important. Such postings have something in common with the information ircam might start discussing here - the sharing of knowledge and experience. After all, is that not what the usenet is about? As for discussing what "makes you spine tingle" in music, I find that hard to do in 7 bit ascii. I can easily create the sounds, but they are awfully difficult too play on this qwerty keyboard. With all this vogue for transmitting digital images over nets, why can't we work with the simpler task of music - then we could really have some discussions and illustrations of the capabilities of equipment and composers on this net. Who knows, perhaps even my poor qwerty keyboard could become a "real" keyboard, I'd feel more comfortable with that ... :-) bob (decvax!ulose!bob) ps. as usual, these ravings are meerly a product of my own excessively free- wheeling mind at work and should not be taken as anything but the words of a lunatic, not particularly affiliated with anyone else, taking a break from laying down a track of the cat drowning in the bathtub.
shep@datacube.UUCP (12/16/85)
> Adaptive Delta Modulation seems to be a nice idea, but I've found that >no manufacturer is using this technique with the exception of Delta Lab >Inc. My impression is that the sample frequency is a function of the slope >of the input, (and hence, d(-)/dt?). Can you tell me more? I know Dbx in Waltham, MA has their own, hip, way of delta encoding. A scan of Audio Enginering Society journals should point you to the reprint you need. Shep Siegel UUCP: [ihnp4 | mirror]!datacube!shep Datacube Inc.; 4 Dearborn Rd.; Peabody, Ma. 01960; +1 617 535 6644
keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) (12/18/85)
In article <701@abic.UUCP> mjm@abic.UUCP (Mark Medovich) writes: > Adaptive Delta Modulation seems to be a nice idea, but I've found that >no manufacturer is using this technique with the exception of Delta Lab >Inc. My impression is that the sample frequency is a function of the slope >of the input, (and hence, d(-)/dt?). Can you tell me more? Sorry, this is a new one on me, (jeez it's getting tougher and tougher to keep up with all this stuff, I barely have time to scan the contents of my Computer Music Journal these days). If you find a reference, please post it, sounds like it could be worth some investigation anyway. In addition, if someone out there has a good reference for some of the details of using PCM techniques for samplers, I've been filtering out previous postings on the subject (information overload) and now find a need in this area. Thanks, Keith Doyle # {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd # cadovax!keithd@ucla-locus.arpa
kish@caip.RUTGERS.EDU (Bill Kish) (12/20/85)
>In article <1652@decwrl.UUCP> malik@galaxy.DEC (Karl Malik) writes: >> >> I personally would love to be involved in a discussion with >>the IRCAM folks. BUT, I'm not so sure that our discussions would be of much >>interest to them. > >> IRCAM has some impressive musicians and technicians working >>there. They certainly aren't going to be interested in questions >>about how to hook up your new Casio to a drum machine. > I enjoy reading the "Computer Music Journal" as well as "Keyboard" magazine. I think I would enjoy each a little bit less if the articles were interspersed together. Would it be possible to have a separate newsgroup for the people here interested in Ircam and to allow net.music.synth to continue on its present course ? -Bill Kish
pajb@ulysses.UUCP (Paul Bennett) (12/23/85)
From: chris@cornell.UUCP (Christopher F. Harrison)
Newsgroups: net.music.synth
Date: 12 Dec 85 16:08:42 GMT
Reply-To: chris@cornell.UUCP (Christopher F. Harrison)
Keywords: Exchange of Ideas, Fresh Air in a Stale Newsgroup...
Summary:
..........
How many general interest articles are there? I could get heavily
entrenched in the subject of music and emotion, what sends the chill up the
spine, and is there a way to tap into a composer's music-generating brain
waves, to name one. I've always been intrigued by music-related research,
and the exchange of ideas could be quite active if this channel of
communication is opened.
At any rate, this is not net.my.synth.is.better.than.your.synth, nor is
it net.midi.interface, it's net.music.synth, and I feel the name qualifies
the IRCAM much more than a programmer who plays a casio for fun and wants
to conduct a price survey. If people will watch the amount of drivel that
gets posted we won't get too swamped, and if the subject matter stabilizes
the same way that the present garbage has, your updated kill file can take
care of things pretty well.
Chris, I agree 100%. Althogh the info on synths can be useful, I'd
still like to get some more discussion of wider issues, musical ideas,
etc. IRCAM would be great for this.
--
Paul.
UUCP: {decvax,allegra,vax135,ucbvax}!ulysses!circe!pajb
DDD: (201) 582 7346
USPS: AT&T Bell Labs, Room 5E-103, Murray Hill, NJ 07974
.. I don't care WHO you are, you're not walking on the water while I'M fishing.