john@sol1.UUCP (john) (01/18/86)
Can someone please point me on how to implement MIDI through mode on a Sequential circuits Six track? The setup I'm trying to achieve is as follows: ---------------- ------------------- | |---------------| SIX TRACK A | | M I R A G E | ------------------- ---------------- | ------------------- | SIX TRACK B | ------------------- I had found that the only way to get a Six-track to get a sufficiently thick sound was to tie two together in double mode. This is great so far... But I would like to control this from my mirage keyboard. (better feel, 5 octaves, etc.), But when I control six-track A from the Mirage, SIX track A plays fine from the Mirage keyboard, but Six-Track B does nothing. (ARGH!!) The Six-Track seems to be lacking a MIDI through mode. Or at least I don't know how to invoke it. (I have a preliminary manual only) although I do have updated roms as of approx 1 year ago. Any help ............... [ Take what I say in a different way ] [ and it's easy to say ] [ that this is all confusion ] John Korsmeyer @ THE SOLUTION EMAIL: {akgua,ihnp4}!sol1!john
ach@pucc-h (Stephen Uitti) (01/21/86)
In article <405@sol1.UUCP> john@sol1.UUCP (John Korsmeyer) writes: >Can someone please point me on how to implement MIDI through mode on >a Sequential circuits Six track? The setup I'm trying to achieve is as >follows: > [Mirage --> Six Track A --> Six Track B.] My guess is that the Six track doesn't have MIDI Thru. My Prophet T8 doesn't either. Let me side step the question for a moment and expound on MIDI configurations. I'm sure someone out there will want to see this. I've got gobs of hardware: a Sequential Circuits "Prophet T8" (which I'll call the T8 from now on), a Yamaha DX7, a Commodore 64 with sequencer software (C64 from now on), and an Oberheim "Matrix 12" (M12, from now on). The DX7, and M12 have MIDI thru, the C64 and T8 don't. The C64 is used as a sequencer. The configuration I used to use while recording and playback is as follows: C64<------------+ Sort of solves the problem, by letting | out in | you record by playing the DX7, and v in | playback also works in this configuration. DX7 | The C64 is the "master". Note that either | thru | the DX7 or M12 keyboard can be set up this v in | way. The T8 can't, due to lack of MIDI M12 | thru. Sequential says in the manual that | thru | "you'll want to use the T8 as master, so v in out | no thru is needed". So much for that idea. T8--------------+ The trouble with this is that the T8 keyboard has a nicer set of keys. There are 76 of them (6 1/3 octaves, vs 61 keys: 5 octaves on either the DX7 or M12), and the wood weighted keys allow more consistent velocity (from my fingers) which allows me to use more sensitive settings, which gives me more dynamic range. I'd like to record this way too. When just playing, I bypass the C64, by changing MIDI cords. To use the T8 as the master recording keyboard, I do this: T8<-------------+ C64<------------+ | out in | | out in | v in | v in | DX7 | DX7 | | thru | and | thru | v in | v in | M12 | M12 | | thru | | thru | v in out | v in out | C64-------------+ T8--------------+ This lets you record on the C64 This lets you play the C64 the stuff you are hearing. The back on everything, but not T8 is the "master" here. On record. The C64 is the playback, the C64 plays on the "master" here. T8 alone. Carefull study of these will show that MIDI cords must be swapped each time I go from/to record/playback. This is a pain. It will get even worse when I get my C64 to be a patch librarian for these various machines. Sensing what was about to occur, I purchased a Zaphod MIDI selector (I think I've got the name right). I think it lists for about $200, though my package deal had so much junk in it that I have no idea what they would part with one for). This box (rackmount, though I don't have a rack) has 4 MIDI inputs, 8 MIDI outputs, 12 3-position switches and on/off. It functions as a quick MIDI cord switcher and an infinite MIDI Y-cord (one in to several out). The 3-position switches allow you to switch inputs and outputs to BUS A, BUS B, and OFF. So, you put your slave units on a bus, let yourself switch your favorite masters on this bus (or OFF). Then, with a flick of one or two switches you're on the road. (You probably don't want MIDI out going to MIDI in on you master keyboard, though this doesn't cause a loop - it just causes two of the same note to be played on that board, differant synths handle this differantly) you're going. So in your case, a setup would be: +--------+ Mirage out-------->1 IN | Zaphod | 1 out--->Six Track "Alice" in | | 2 out--->Six Track "Bertha" in +--------+ with plenty of room for things like sequencers, etc. Note that all you are using it for is a "MIDI Y cord". A "MIDI Y cord" is really a box, and it does basically what "MIDI thru" does, except that it's input isn't tied to the input of any particular synth. You can get a "MIDI Y cord" fairly cheaply, I'm told. The Zaphod is more of a long term solution. It assumes that your system will grow, to some extent. My own configuration (bordering on the absurd, I'll admit cheerfully) is now something like this: +--------+ T8 out---->1 IN | Zaphod | 1 out--->T8 in DX7 out--->2 IN | | 2 out--->DX7 in M12 out--->3 IN | | 3 out--->M12 in C64 out--->4 IN | | 4 out--->C64 in +--------+ Leaving Zaphod outputs 5-8 empty. If I get more slave units, these outputs may come in handy. Note that I probably will seldom use my DX7 or M12 as as master keyboard, since the T8 keyboard is (in my opinion) a nicer keyboard. However, if I get my C64 to do patch library type things, then all keyboards will want to be able to be switched to the "in" side of the Zaphod. If I get a Yamaha TX7 (a keyboardless machine), I'd use both of them as "masters" in the Zaphod, to send MIDI patches & other info back & forth between them. The TX7 adds features to the DX7 that I've thought were missing and needed (such as "fuction patches, and stereo). Therefore, if I were to give the Zaphod Electronics people a hint, I'd say: design it withexactly as many inputs as outputs. Note that with my configuration, even if everything had "thru", I'd still be out of luck for what I want to do: in Synth A---------+ Synth A is "master". Recording is fine. Playback |out | requires the Sequencer to be "master". To do |in | this, Synth A should talk to Synth B via "thru". Synth B | Note that having a "thru" on the sequencer gets |thru | you nowhere. Thus you have to move one MIDI cord |in | to get the sequencer to play all the synths. Synth C | Synth A would need to talk to Synth B via |thru | thru. This is also true of two synths and a |in out | sequencer. I've seen many 2 Synth & drummer setups Sequencer-------+ where the drummer (Linn 9000) has a sequencer. >I had found that the only way to get a Six-track to get a sufficiently >thick sound was to tie two together in double mode. Another way to have done this (it's probably too late) is to use a digital delay. I've heard some of the cheaper delays that cost less than a Six Track that sound pretty good. This won't do you any good if you want to layer completely differant sounds, as I do. Still, the delay at short (< 20 millisecs, i think) give you a fatter sound, and longer delays give you other sorts of nice effects - sounds difficult to make on a Six Track, and tricky to do right even for a Matrix. *** flame section, "My axe is..." *** The Oberheim Matrix 12 can outperform a pair of Six-tracks. Not surprizing, since it costs more. Moreover, the Oberhiem Xpander or Matrix 6 might come close to outperforming (in fatness & versatility) a pair of Six-tracks. The Matrix/Xpander series does EVERYTHING that a Six-track does (and more). Still, you probably bought what you could get your hands on (the Matrix 6 is fairly new). The Matrix/Xpander features and sound are pretty nice. I still agree with the Keyboard Magazine equipment review of the Matrix 12 (then called the Matrix, since there was no Matrix 6), "The Matrix is possibly the ultimate analog synthesizer". This is no overstatement, though I could hardly call it conservative. Still, there was enough room for improvement that Oberhiem has improved it slightly. Were I to do my system over, it might be a Matrix 12 (or two) and the 88 key Roland MIDI controller. Still I'd have had to have waited longer. If one waits long enough, the "ultimate system" will appear. The Universe will be contracting (rather than expanding), and you and I will have been dead for billions of years. > John Korsmeyer @ THE SOLUTION > EMAIL: {akgua,ihnp4}!sol1!john Stephen Uitti, Purdue University Computing Center (staff) EMAIL: ...pur-ee!pucc-h!ach, or ach@purdue-asc.ARPA "Moderation in all things...including moderation."