sunil@ut-ngp.UTEXAS (Sunil Trivedi) (07/02/85)
From: tw8023@pyuxii.UUCP (T Wheeler) Message-ID: <146@pyuxii.UUCP> > ... Study the Koran. Tell them > that if they don't toe the line, we will spray the entire country > with pig's excrement, blood, and parts. ... > ... You can't make it to heaven > tainted with pig's anything. This method has been used before to > nullify the fanatisism of some of the Moslem groups. The British > used it in India and in North Africa (WWII). As long as the Moslem > fanatic believes he will not be allowed into paradise because he > is tainted with swine, his fervor vanishes. This method precludes > the killing of innocent people plus, the problem for the truly > religious can be cleaned. ... > This all may sound tounge-in-cheek, but it has worked in the past. Has anyone heard of this being used on the Muslim populations in India or North Africa? Was anything similar ever used on the Hindus to control them whenever (if ever) they became 'rowdy'? Sunil Trivedi sunil@ut-ngp.ARPA ...!ut-sally!ut-ngp!sunil
clewis@mnetor.UUCP (Chris Lewis) (07/03/85)
In article <1949@ut-ngp.UTEXAS> sunil@ut-ngp.UTEXAS (Sunil Trivedi) writes: >From: tw8023@pyuxii.UUCP (T Wheeler) Message-ID: <146@pyuxii.UUCP> >> ... Study the Koran. Tell them >> that if they don't toe the line, we will spray the entire country >> with pig's excrement, blood, and parts. ... >> ... You can't make it to heaven >> tainted with pig's anything. This method has been used before to >> nullify the fanatisism of some of the Moslem groups. The British >> used it in India and in North Africa (WWII). As long as the Moslem >> fanatic believes he will not be allowed into paradise because he >> is tainted with swine, his fervor vanishes. This method precludes >> the killing of innocent people plus, the problem for the truly >> religious can be cleaned. ... >> This all may sound tounge-in-cheek, but it has worked in the past. > >Has anyone heard of this being used on the Muslim populations in >India or North Africa? Was anything similar ever used on the >Hindus to control them whenever (if ever) they became 'rowdy'? > > Sunil Trivedi > sunil@ut-ngp.ARPA > ...!ut-sally!ut-ngp!sunil Yeah, the British used it India (or, at least the Sepoy regiments thought so). See where it got them? The 1847 (may have the wrong date) Sepoy Rebellion. This is how I remember it: The British were introducing a new rifle cartridge to their troops (both the Indian regiments and the British soldiers themselves) - they were lubricated with some sort of grease. You were supposed to bite off the end before using it. A rumor started claiming that the grease was from pigs (I seem to remember that it was not animal-derived at all). But, for some reason the senior British officers (who the Sepoys respected and would have believed) refused to deny this - they just reiterated the order that the Sepoys HAD to use the cartridge, regardless of their religious beliefs. Next thing you knew, the Sepoy regiments mutinied and the British had a real fight on their hands (both from the civilian population AND the British trained native regiments). Hundreds (if not thousands) of both Indian and British soldiers and civilians (many of the soldier's families) died over the next year or so. Senior British Officers can be phenomenally stupid opon occasion. (Especially, as was frequently the case in "quiet" zones, when they were in their 80's. I heard the comment once: The British lose all of the battles, but always win the war ). -- Chris Lewis, UUCP: {allegra, linus, ihnp4}!utzoo!mnetor!clewis BELL: (416)-475-8980 ext. 321
dave@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA (Bharat Dave) (07/07/85)
>>> ... Tell them >>> that if they don't toe the line, we will spray the entire country >>> with pig's excrement, blood, and parts. ... >>> ... You can't make it to heaven >>> tainted with pig's anything. This method has been used before to >>> nullify the fanatisism ... I doubt it. If anything it will whip up fanaticism. I don't know about heaven but I suspect if, with SUCH pig-headed suggestions, one can even make it on THIS earth ! > Yeah, the British used it India (or, at least the Sepoy regiments > thought so). See where it got them? The 1847 (may have the wrong > date) Sepoy Rebellion. That was the 1857 Sepoy Rebellion. Bharat Dave dave@cmu-cs-cad.arpa
mohan@sbcs.UUCP (Chilukuri K. Mohan) (07/10/85)
> In article <1949@ut-ngp.UTEXAS> sunil@ut-ngp.UTEXAS (Sunil Trivedi) writes: > >From: tw8023@pyuxii.UUCP (T Wheeler) Message-ID: <146@pyuxii.UUCP> > >> ... Study the Koran. Tell them > >> that if they don't toe the line, we will spray the entire country > >> with pig's excrement, blood, and parts. ... > >> ... You can't make it to heaven > >> tainted with pig's anything. This method has been used before to > >> nullify the fanatisism of some of the Moslem groups. The British > >> used it in India and in North Africa (WWII). As long as the Moslem > >> fanatic believes he will not be allowed into paradise because he > >> is tainted with swine, his fervor vanishes. This method precludes > >> the killing of innocent people plus, the problem for the truly > >> religious can be cleaned. ... > >> This all may sound tounge-in-cheek, but it has worked in the past. > > > >Has anyone heard of this being used on the Muslim populations in > >India or North Africa? Was anything similar ever used on the > >Hindus to control them whenever (if ever) they became 'rowdy'? > > > > Sunil Trivedi > > sunil@ut-ngp.ARPA > > ...!ut-sally!ut-ngp!sunil > > Yeah, the British used it India (or, at least the Sepoy regiments > thought so). See where it got them? The 1847 (may have the wrong > date) Sepoy Rebellion. > > This is how I remember it: > > The British were introducing a new rifle cartridge to their troops > (both the Indian regiments and the British soldiers themselves) - they > were lubricated with some sort of grease. You were supposed to bite > off the end before using it. A rumor started claiming that the grease > was from pigs (I seem to remember that it was not animal-derived at > all). But, for some reason the senior British officers (who the Sepoys > respected and would have believed) refused to deny this - they just > reiterated the order that the Sepoys HAD to use the cartridge, > regardless of their religious beliefs. Next thing you knew, the Sepoy > regiments mutinied and the British had a real fight on their hands > (both from the civilian population AND the British trained native > regiments). Hundreds (if not thousands) of both Indian and British > soldiers and civilians (many of the soldier's families) died over the > next year or so. > > Senior British Officers can be phenomenally stupid opon occasion. > (Especially, as was frequently the case in "quiet" zones, when they were > in their 80's. I heard the comment once: > The British lose all of the battles, but always win the war > ). > -- > Chris Lewis, > UUCP: {allegra, linus, ihnp4}!utzoo!mnetor!clewis > BELL: (416)-475-8980 ext. 321 In the year 1857, there were tremendous uprisings in several parts of India. British historians called the whole thing a `Sepoy Mutiny', and tragically, the idea that it was a mere act of indiscipline seems to be widely believed. I, would like to protest: in calling the FIRST WAR OF INDIAN INDEPENDENCE a mere mutiny, history is being written to suit the ideas of colonisers. The reasons for uprisings, `mutinies', revolutions are not to be simply found in the stupidity of a few officers, just as they are not to be seen as the machinations of outsiders. The very existence of oppression is cause enough for the oppressed to rebel. The very existence of colonial domination is sufficient fuel for conflagrations of national liberation struggles. Yes, sparks are needed: sometimes external and internal conditions reach a point at which the oppressed find the existing situation intolerable. And then: death and destruction to the masters, with the inevitable sacrifice of some of the rebels as well. The `sepoy mutiny' as well as several other struggles must be seen in this light. The rumors circulated about pigfat and cowfat being used by the army are but one small item in a whole list of other reasons for the uprising. The mutiny itself must be seen in conjunction with all the other struggles that were occurring in the country at the time. I am sure there are a lot of history books which can help contribute to the genuine understanding of what happened in 1857, as well as in the years preceding and following. PLEASE don't believe that the dead cobra is nothing but a piece of rope: at one time, it moved, it hissed, and flung its venom at the WhiteMan's Burden. Chilukuri K. Mohan (alias 'CK') mohan@suny-sbcs.csnet [Stony Brook] *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
clewis@mnetor.UUCP (Chris Lewis) (07/12/85)
In article <351@sbcs.UUCP> mohan@sbcs.UUCP (Chilukuri K. Mohan) writes: >In the year 1857, there were tremendous uprisings in several parts of India. >British historians called the whole thing a `Sepoy Mutiny', and tragically, >the idea that it was a mere act of indiscipline seems to be widely believed. >I, would like to protest: in calling the > FIRST WAR OF INDIAN INDEPENDENCE >a mere mutiny, history is being written to suit the ideas of colonisers. I apologize to those people who may have been mislead by my posting to believe that the ONLY reason for the Sepoy Mutiny (C. Mohan's "First War of Indian Independence") was a "mere act of indiscipline" (regarding pig fat etc.). I was not rewriting history to suit the ideas of the colonizers. I know somewhat more about the war than that (other than getting the year wrong - sorry). There were many other FAR MORE IMPORTANT factors behind the war. The Pig Fat incident was merely one of the focal points (and had major influence solely on the Sepoy regiments - not the rest of the participants. Without this incident MAYBE the Sepoys would have stayed with the British, but this, in itself wouldn't have affected much - the war would still have happened, just delayed a little longer.) To people more familiar with European history, the "Pig Fat" incident was similar in effect to the assassination of Arch-Duke Ferdinand in 1914. The latter was certainly NOT the reason for WWI, but it was one of the major triggers. My main point in posting the original posting was to point out that the original suggestion of dumping animal parts and byproducts on Lebanon was likely to have the opposite effect to what the original suggester suggested. Partially to show how little understanding there is of the peoples involved on the part of some of the posters (sorta) supporting such an action. My personal views on Indian Independence and the wars were not the issue, and still aren't. I'm not British either - so I won't go into issues of possible bias or "history rewriting" on EITHER side. -- Chris Lewis, UUCP: {allegra, linus, ihnp4}!utzoo!mnetor!clewis BELL: (416)-475-8980 ext. 321