wpl@burdvax.UUCP (William Loftus) (07/06/85)
> I do not agree with Mr. Loftus that Indian parents are creating dependence > in their children by supporting them as long as they can. > Good, glad to hear someone does not agree with me, but I never said Indian parents are creating dependence. I said they use dependence to teach their children how to survive. > Arranged marriages are based on the criteria of jointly selecting a mate > after the family members critically investigate into the matching > characteristics of both mates and their family trees. What I am suggesting > here is that a decision is arrived at by comparing the upbringing of > the mate with the upbringing of the family and comparing the similarities > like food preferences, religious preferences, companies they hang out with, > etc. > I didn't say they weren't based on the above? I didn't notice anything about liking the mate? > Elders with their experiences direct individuals in the proper direction > and indicate why their preferences are one way or other. At an young > age a person cannot be expected to make rational decisions, particularly > when the person is in a lust. > I really hate to disagree here, but.. I think a young person can make a rational decision. At a young age most of the decisions that affect the rest of our life are made. If we cannot be expected to make rational decisions until we are old, we shouldn't do anything for ourselves. I understand that when a man and a woman meet, there are lustfully intentions. In India, since there is no dating, when a man meets a woman the attraction will be greater. In the USA, where there is dating, lust does not play a big role in marriage. I am not promoting premarital sex, but the companionship of a woman helps teaches the young American to make a rational decision. ( by companionship I mean the company of a man or woman nothing else ) > In Indian families, decisions are made jointly as a family, just like > any corporation does in U.S.A. All pros and cons are evaluated before > the decision is made. Children are taught to respect their elders > and to take advantage of their knowledge. This is how they are trained > to face difficult times in life. It is due to this training that they > survive their marital problems which are bound to happen in every one's > life. > There is nothing different with an American family. One of the first things an American male does, is bring his date home for his parents to meet. I my original posting I stated that many of the Indians I have met in this country have never taken a good look at what the USA is really like. I think you are guilty of the same offense. I hope that you do not think Americans do not listen to their parents, we most certainly do! > Dependence on experience of this kind is far better than independence > of inexperience that my experienced colleague is preaching for. > Please don't misunderstand what I was trying to say. I was saying that both cultures are trying to teach their children how to survive in today's world. The Indian culture does this by supporting their children in every way, whereas an American family does this by helping their children support themselves. I think a strong case can be made for both sides. > Is this independence the reason why divorce rate is high in U.S. and > is it the dependence that is keeping people married for their life? > I would prefer the dependence if that helps me keep my sanity....... > As for the divorce rate in the US, well I am ashamed. I do not think people in this country take the word "promise" to mean forever. I am very much against divorce, but I do not think it is American culture that produces the high divorce rate. I do think the high divorce rate can be attributed to some people taking advantage of the American Ideals. America gives as much freedom as possible, unfortunately this relies on trust. I am sorry to say that some Americans take advantage of this trust for their own benefit. We are not perfect, and if someone else thinks there is a better way to base a culture please let me know. Please try to look into American, not just at America. If I take a quick look at India, I see lots of starving people, but if I look into India I see the rich heritage India has. -- / / /======/ Ronin ..!burdvax!wpl ======= / / / / / /======/ ====== / / / /======/ /
raghu@rlgvax.UUCP (Raghu Raghunathan) (07/11/85)
> > I do not agree with Mr. Loftus that Indian parents are creating dependence > > in their children by supporting them as long as they can. > > > > Good, glad to hear someone does not agree with me, but I never > said Indian parents are creating dependence. I said they use > dependence to teach their children how to survive. > I'd go even a step further and say Indians do foster dependence. In India, "getting along with society" and "living as a family unit" are stressed more than "individuality" or "being independent". In fact, in the upbringing of children (especially girls), individuality and creativity are often looked down on, whereas sociability and "pleasing one's elders and superiors" is encouraged. > > > I think a young person can make a rational decision. > At a young age most of the decisions that affect the rest of our > life are made. If we cannot be expected to make rational decisions > until we are old, we shouldn't do anything for ourselves. > That's true enough but *only* when one is trained to make decisions from an early age. In India, all the decisions for a child (say till he/she is 18) are made by his/her parents. Under such upbringing, it is practically impossible for a young person to make a major decision (like choosing a mate) when that decision is the first decision he/she will make in life. > > There is nothing different with an American family. One of the first > things an American male does, is bring his date home for his > parents to meet. > Some American males may bring home their dates for their parents to meet, but (in my limited exposure to American culture) I find most males live apart from the family and many don't even care to inform their parents of their marriage, let alone of their dates. I don't know how accurate I am, but in the college I went to, most male friends of mine expressly didn't care to have their parents opinion or input in the chioce of their mates, maintaining that "it was no business of theirs". I found that attitude callous. > I my original posting I stated that many of the Indians I have met > in this country have never taken a good look at what the USA is > really like. I agree with that and I think it's a shame. But you should also appreciate the difficulties involved. In India, it is very easy for a foreigner to learn about the society by studying one family since most families follow the rigid social norms very closely and most families are "typical Indian families". There is very little variance around the average. In America, on the other hand, individual variations (among individuals and families) are considerable and sometimes radical. It is impossible to study the society by studying one or even a few American families. There are so many single-parent families, "female-head" families, unmarried couples living together raising kids, separated but not divorced couples, unwed mothers, unwed fathers raising their own children etc... in addition to normal two parent families. I mean, how do you determine what is a typical family to study? - Raghu.
sunil@ut-ngp.UTEXAS (Sunil Trivedi) (07/19/85)
From: raghu@rlgvax.UUCP (Raghu Raghunathan) Message-ID: <693@rlgvax.UUCP> > In fact, in the upbringing of children (especially girls), > individuality and creativity are often looked down on, whereas > sociability and "pleasing one's elders and superiors" is > encouraged. ESPECIALLY GIRLS have the duty to 'please the elders', whereas the boy's duties include taking care of the parents in old age and producing off- spring to carry on the family name. Consider what a girl has to do to and what a boy has to do be ostracised by his/her family. Girls are guided to marriage, while boys are guided to work/education. > ... In India, all the decisions for a child (say > till he/she is 18) are made by his/her parents. Under such > upbringing, it is practically impossible for a young person to > make a major decision (like choosing a mate) when that decision > is the first decision he/she will make in life. If they have the courage, they could 'elope' (in the case of girls) or threaten not to be 'married under God' (in the case of boys). I've known many cases of the former so I guess women are getting stronger. I also know of many cases of the latter. Maybe the influence of the family is fading in this day of mass education and high tech. But when will this touch the countryside, the villages, and those communities where education is not strong? What is the Gov't of India doing in this area? > Some American males may bring home their dates for their parents to > meet, but (in my limited exposure to American culture) I find > most males live apart from the family and many don't even care > to inform their parents of their marriage, let alone of their > dates. I don't know how accurate I am, but in the college I went > to, most male friends of mine expressly didn't care to have their > parents opinion or input in the chioce of their mates, maintaining > that "it was no business of theirs". You hit it on target! When the American male/female brings his/her girl/guy 'home' for his/her parents to meet, he/she is not looking for a scrutiny. He/She is letting his/her parents get used to seeing them together. A defacto marriage? Parents have almost no position, but coughing up money and showing up for the marriage. Consider the Indians who have married non-Indians (which is quite a lot). Were the parents considered before the marriage or was it a 'forced acceptance' for the parents? The times are changing for the Indian family. Sunil Trivedi P.O. Box 8057, Austin, TX 78713-8057 sunil@ut-ngp.ARPA ...!arpasite!sunil@ut-ngp.ARPA where arpasite is an ARPANET site ...!{ihnp4,allegra,nbires,ctvax,gatech,boulder,philabs}!ut-ngp!sunil