baparao@uscvax.UUCP (Bapa Rao) (12/28/85)
I am excited to see the lively discussion in this newsgroup on this subject, esp. the recent one between Messrs. Lakhotia and Sriram. I also find the occassional postings regarding developments in this field in India to be quite informative. However, I find that I am without the sources and references needed to form a comprehensive, objective picture of the state of industrial computing ( including hardware + software, mainframes/minis/micros ...) in India. I for one would be much obliged if someone would post the names and contact addresses for books/reports/journals/conference proceedings/trade publications, ... concerned with the Indian computer market, especially software. Ideally, I would like to see an authoritative survey article summarizing the state-of-the-art in India, which analyzes the strengths and weaknesses, and provides a prognosis for the future, in the context of the current "liberal" trade policy of the government. If no such survey article exists, perhaps some such thing can emerge from the discussions on net.nlang.india on the subject? Now, let me summarize the impressions I gathered from the discussion between Messrs. Lakhotia and Sriram: 1. There is essentially no system software (e.g., editors, compilers) being developed by Indian software vendors. The standard way of obtaining system software is through hardware vendors, who copy and port packages that are in varying stages of obsolescence in the West. However, some kinds of application software, notably Devanagari editors and CAD/CAM software are being indigeneously developed. (What is the quality of such software? Who is developing it? The big hardware merchants? Independent software houses? Government? Others?) 2.In general, end-users lack in-house expertise to develop their own application software on top of the standard system packages and are heavily dependent on the original vendor for this. These vendors are themselves not in a position to make any radical innovations, and will only do low-level tuning and adaptation work. Their use of the term "research and development" in this context is inappropriate and misleading. 3. (Extrapolating from 1 and 2) There is negligible interaction between the software industry and the research divisions of the major universities and the IITs, with the result that software developers have neither the knowledge nor the confidence to design and develop state-of-the-art software of competitive quality. Basically, they are satisfied with grabbing what money they can in a protected market by selling second-hand, second-rate software. 4. The situation is expected to alter, given the more liberal trade policy of the present government and the prospects of greater interaction between industry and the university Computer Science departments that are being started all over the place. (Are there any tangible effects and trends seen in the short time the new trade policy has been in effect?) I must emphasize that the above points constitute a "global" picture of the situation, as I understood it from the postings I have read. My perspective is that of someone in complete ignorance, groping around to get some idea of the state of affairs. I would like to see more critical analysis of the issues in net.nlang.india in the near future. Thanks. --Bapa Rao.
kumard@sunybcs.UUCP (Deepak Kumar) (12/31/85)
> > 1. There is essentially no system software (e.g., editors, compilers) being > developed by Indian software vendors. The standard way of obtaining system > software is through hardware vendors, who copy and port packages that are > in varying stages of obsolescence in the West. However, some kinds of > application software, notably Devanagari editors and CAD/CAM software are > being indigeneously developed. (What is the quality of such software? Who is > developing it? The big hardware merchants? Independent software houses? > Government? Others?) > Not true. This basically washes out all the R&D effort expended by the computer manufacturers in India. Agreed, that most of the packages are ported from western vendors, but that is to avoid reinventing what has already been invented. Imagine a computer manufacturer after learning about a piece of software, going back to his development team and saying, how about implementing this?! By the time his team has a prototype ready, the package is hopelessly out of date. Instead the manufacturer acquires the software and its source code with a licence to modify, and gives it to his team, which then maintains and builds upon the system as and when the need arises. This is true of most prestigious computer vendors. Besides, I have seen massive R&D teams working on complete from-the-scratch designs for forthcoming products. This includes hardware, as well as software. These ideas are very much triggered by advances in technology, and raw components, rather than complete systems are imported. This has proven very successful as it also has a potential for international market. Just to put things in a concrete perspective, DCM Data Products came up with an automatic attendance recording and time keeping system APRICOT, five years ago. This system has recieved international merit and DCM set up assembly plants in SE Asia to cope with the demand. I'm sure there are a number of products like these. There are sizeable research teams constantly working with designs based on state-of-the-art technology. As far as developing systems software is concerned, again it isn't just a Copy-and-Run affair. I am aware of several indegenously developed systems software products that are really merituous. That includes compilers, debuggers, assemblers, editors, embedded environments etc. There are liasons between the industry the the universities to aid in the development. Computer vendors provide the universities with grant and equipment to help them develop new products. Besides the Electronic Commission has been giving out a lot of research grants to universities as well as industry to aid in the development of indegenous products. To sum up, vendors do adopt a copy-and-sell policy to keep up with the market. However, more sensible vendors do spend money and effort in research aimed at long term goals. There are numerous companies that survive on the copying philosophy, but if they continue, they probably don't last long. All the big computer vendors have sizeable research teams that have a number of indegenous products to be proud of. > 2.In general, end-users lack in-house expertise to develop their own > application software on top of the standard system packages and are heavily > dependent on the original vendor for this. These vendors are themselves not > in a position to make any radical innovations, and will only do low-level > tuning and adaptation work. Their use of the term "research and > development" in this context is inappropriate and misleading. > True for small vendors. For companies that boast R&D teams, they generally tend to have separate Customer Support Teams that do the low level tuning etc. It is true that there is a good percentage of the R&D that is involved in converting/adapting existing software but then someone has to maintain it. However they are also responsible for making 'radical innovations' demanded by the local market. As far as end-users lacking in-house expertise is concerned, it was very prominent a few years ago, but as the available manpower figures rise, they are able to employ experts to take care of their own needs. Lack of expert manpower has flourished a number of consultancy organizations who have also been known to exploit the ignorance of end-users. This, however, is decreasing. > 3. (Extrapolating from 1 and 2) There is negligible interaction between the > software industry and the research divisions of the major universities and > the IITs, with the result that software developers have neither the > knowledge nor the confidence to design and develop state-of-the-art software > of competitive quality. Basically, they are satisfied with grabbing what > money they can in a protected market by selling second-hand, second-rate > software. > Not true. It is just a small scale image of what is going on here i.e. there is the government (The Department of Electronics and the Electronics Commission) giving out money for research to the universities/industry. The industry collaborating with the universities for development. I have seen very healthy interactions and have witnessed and taken part in several such ventures. They are extremely productive and there have been promising results. I am glad that most of these grants don't come from the Defense Department. > > I must emphasize that the above points constitute a "global" picture of the > situation, as I understood it from the postings I have read. My perspective > is that of someone in complete ignorance, groping around to get some idea of > the state of affairs. I would like to see more critical analysis of the > issues in net.nlang.india in the near future. Thanks. > > In my mind, previous discussions were geared towards prospective enterpreneurs who might want to make it big in India. So things were presented in that kind of a perspective. I hope that people posting on these issues do take a global perspective and not bias anyone's impressions on their own viewpoints. Thanx. Deepak. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- UUCP : {cmcl2,hao,harpo}!seismo!rochester!rocksvax!sunybcs!kumard ...{allegra,decvax,watmath}!sunybcs!kumard | CSNET : kumard@buffalo | ARPA : kumard%buffalo@csnet-relay | BITNET : kumard@sunybcs | -------------------------------------------------------------------
baparao@uscvax.UUCP (Bapa Rao) (01/07/86)
In article <2684@sunybcs.UUCP> kumard@sunybcs.UUCP (Deepak Kumar) writes: (My summary of his posting) >[A reply to my earlier posting regarding my dim view of the Indian software > industry, presented from an admittedly uninformed perspective. The gist of > Deepak's posting was that a good deal of genuine R&D does exist, supported > by the larger computer houses such as DCM, and the Indian software industry > isn't entirely composed of copy-and-run artists.] Deepak's posting is gratifying, and I appreciate his taking the time. However, to persist in my pessimistic theme, let me say that we are all aware that the general, hackneyed picture of Indian enterprise seems to be that of overall shoddy and second-rate work, together with some exceptionally outstanding work (which seems to hold the whole thing together) whatever the field. (Patriots, please don't flame me; I am merely trying to clarify my own vision, and am using extreme language out of sheer laziness.) Is the computer software picture basically different from this? Rather than a yes or no answer, I would like to see answers to the following questions: 1. What are the organizations (names of industries, govt. agencies, universities, research labs etc.) undertaking research in software, which is of quality publishable in refereed international journals? 2. What are the application areas being looked at? 3. What specific areas of software technology are the focus of such research? 4. What are examples of some of the outstanding and pioneering efforts of this kind? (Similar to the APRICOT system cited by Deepak) Again, I would appreciate it if anyone could offer pointers to relevant literature. Thanks. --Bapa Rao.