[net.sources.mac] net.sources.mac considered harmful?

chuq@sun.UUCP (05/30/86)

My apology in advance for the cross-posting to net.sources.mac, but this
is something that directly relates to that newsgroup. All followups should
be sent to net.micro.mac only (it will automatically if your software isn't
broken...)

I recently posted two sets of software to net.sources.mac -- a set of
files for the Boston II Font and the ADVSYS adventure package. I'm quite
dismayed at the number of people who have written back and told me that
they are broken at their site.  I know that the package worked when it
left my machine, and there have been places on the net where it has worked,
so it isn't a global problem.

It seems to me, thnking back, that there hasn't been a single significant
posting to n.s.m for a while that hasn't been garbaged somewhere. BinHexes,
unfortunately, are very suceptible to single bit/byte errors.

Now, theoretically, the transport layer (UUCP) should protect us from that.
There seem to be areas of the net, however, that have consistent failures.

I want to find out exactly how bad this is.  If you downloaded either the
Boston fonts or the ADVSYS game, will you PLEASE send me mail and tell me
whether the download worked or not. If you can, please send me the header
to one of the messages.  From this, I will try to extrapolate what
percentage of the net is being munged and what sites are likely to be
doing it.

Frankly, I'm quite discouraged, to the point where I might just not bother
posting stuff in the future.  If I have to try to get private copies to 10
or 15 people because the net screwed it up, it isn't worth my time -- I'll
just pop it over to info-mac on sumex and forget UUCP. Also, if this stuff
isn't working, I'm not going to make USENET volumes worse by throwing around
stuff that isn't any good. 

If it turns out to be just a few sites that are bad, we can probably shine
it on. If not, we need to rethink the policy of posting BinHexed stuff -- if
it isn't doing any good, why do it? mod.mac isn't a solution, because stuff
gets garbaged regardless of its race, creed, or moderation. If we DO
have a problem, there are two solutions:

o stop posting, or

o create something better than BinHex. Rather than CRC, perhaps some kind of
	ECC checksum that can rebuild the destruction if it isn't major.

This has some rather nasty implications to the rest of the net.  If Mac
code is being garbaged, I think it is a good assumption that regular
messages, shars, and sources are being garbaged as well.  It isn't as
critical a problem here, but if people are losing characters, words, or
paragraphs out of their postings, who can guess what it does to the context?

Comments and suggestions are welcome, but please send me the yes/no on
whether you could use that stuff and how it got to you. As it stands, I'm
not going to post any more stuff that I get my hands on until I'm sure 
it isn't a wasted motion.

thanx

chuq


-- 
:From the lofty realms of Castle Plaid:          Chuq Von Rospach 
chuq%plaid@sun.COM	FidoNet: 125/84		 CompuServe: 73317,635
{decwrl,decvax,hplabs,ihnp4,pyramid,seismo,ucbvax}!sun!plaid!chuq

The first rule of magic is simple. Don't waste your time waving your hands
and hoping when a rock or a club will do -- McCloctnik the Lucid

clif@intelca.UUCP (Clif Purkiser) (06/02/86)

> My apology in advance for the cross-posting to net.sources.mac, but this
> is something that directly relates to that newsgroup. All followups should
> be sent to net.micro.mac only (it will automatically if your software isn't
> broken...)
> 
> I recently posted two sets of software to net.sources.mac -- a set of
> files for the Boston II Font and the ADVSYS adventure package. I'm quite
> dismayed at the number of people who have written back and told me that
> they are broken at their site.  I know that the package worked when it
> left my machine, and there have been places on the net where it has worked,
> so it isn't a global problem.
> 
> It seems to me, thnking back, that there hasn't been a single significant
> posting to n.s.m for a while that hasn't been garbaged somewhere. BinHexes,
> unfortunately, are very suceptible to single bit/byte errors.
> thanx
> 
> chuq
> 
> 
> -- 
> :From the lofty realms of Castle Plaid:          Chuq Von Rospach 
> chuq%plaid@sun.COM	FidoNet: 125/84		 CompuServe: 73317,635
> {decwrl,decvax,hplabs,ihnp4,pyramid,seismo,ucbvax}!sun!plaid!chuq


	I believe the reason chuq's posting get screwed up is that
his signature is always appended to the end of the postings.  I find
that most of the people who post stuff to net.sources.mac do not have 
their signature lines at the end of the file.  In the past I had problems
with Chuq's posting until I discovered that his signature was appended to
the binhexed file.  Chuq cute little signature is certain to cause BinHex to 
give a bad CRC result.  

	I have not yet found an automated way of downloading stuff.  Currently
I have to save all of the posting to a directory, then I go and strip
off all the header and download information.  I then have to jump to bottom
of the file and check to remove the persons signature if present.  Lately
people have been spliting their posting into small chunks.  Reconstructing
these posting is very tedious and error prone.  

	I am very appreciative of the people who post all the fantastic
mac stuff to the net, but I wish they would follow a few guidlines
to make life easier for those of us who download it. 

	1. Minimize the number of files. Use PackIt I or II if necessary.
(Are there really that many sites which can not accept files greater
than 64K?  I am on a 80286 base Xenix machine which seems to handle large
files very well despite the 64K segment limit.)

	2. Put the line 
----------------------------cut here-------------------------------
	   immediately before the line "This file must be converted with
	   BinHex"

	3. Get rid of your bloody signature.  I like to read peoples
	creative signoff lines but my mac could care less.  
	    

	Thanks 
	Clif

P.S. Chuq, I downloaded AdvSys without any problems.  Its neat thanks
for the posting. 
-- 
Clif Purkiser, Intel, Santa Clara, Ca.
HIGH PERFORMANCE MICROPROCESSORS
{pur-ee,hplabs,amd,scgvaxd,dual,idi,omsvax}!intelca!clif
	
{standard disclaimer about how these views are mine and may not reflect
the views of Intel, my boss , or USNET goes here. }