caf@omen.UUCP (06/24/86)
A number of questions about Stargate: 1) How will Stargate accomodate sites that are cut off from the link for several hours or a couple of days do to storms, cable outages, or system crashes? 2) How will Stargate affect those sites that cannot obtain cable TV or a TVRO viz a] news feed b]article reply/followup 3) Will it be possible to cheaply implement "local Stargates" based on local TV stations for those in condition (2) above, in terms of a head-end encoder and decoder boxes? 4) Could such a local system retransmit Stargate traffic? Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf CIS:70715,131 Author of Professional-YAM communications Tools for PCDOS and Unix Omen Technology Inc 17505-V NW Sauvie Island Road Portland OR 97231 Voice: 503-621-3406 TeleGodzilla: 621-3746 300/1200 L.sys entry for omen: omen Any ACU 1200 1-503-621-3746 se:--se: link ord: Giznoid in:--in: uucp omen!/usr/spool/uucppublic/FILES lists all uucp-able files, updated hourly
henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (06/25/86)
Disclaimer: I am not an official representative of Stargate and have no special inside knowledge. I think I know the correct answers to Chuck's questions, though. > 1) How will Stargate accomodate sites that are cut off from the link for > several hours or a couple of days do to storms, cable outages, or system > crashes? Since in any case there is no guarantee that any given single byte will be received successfully -- noise, flow control, and system downtime all take their toll -- there is planned to be considerable repetition of material so that modest outages don't result in lost traffic. This is one of the reasons why there has to be a smart buffer box between the decoder and your system, so you don't get inundated with multiple copies. > 2) How will Stargate affect those sites that cannot obtain cable TV or > a TVRO viz a] news feed b]article reply/followup If you can't receive it, you can't receive it. Either you need to get the video signal somehow -- cable or dish -- or you have to get the contents from someone who does. Reply and followup in any case go out via phone lines, since the satellite end of things is unidirectional for all practical purposes. (Replies go via mail as always; followups go via mail to the Stargate uplink point, via moderators probably.) > 3) Will it be possible to cheaply implement "local Stargates" based on > local TV stations for those in condition (2) above, in terms of a head-end > encoder and decoder boxes? Getting the cooperation of your TV station will probably be much the hardest part of doing such a thing. Data-transmission space in the vertical interval is VALUABLE. Lauren was originally thinking of people like the religious channels, who aren't really in it for a profit, but even they turn out to be acutely aware that vertical-interval space commands a high price. He lucked out and found an outfit (Southern Satellite Systems, I think it is) which was genuinely interested in the Stargate project. So long as you pay your rental fee on time, I don't suppose Stargate will much care whether you're feeding their video or some local station's video into the box. The head-end gear might be more of a problem, although I wouldn't be surprised if the Stargate signal can simply be transferred from one video signal to another without ever having to understand it. This seems a reasonable sort of thing to expect from commercial video gear. Setting up "your own Stargate" in the sense of actually being able to originate your own content might be complicated. Since there is some proprietary technology involved, the head-end equipment might not be generally available. > 4) Could such a local system retransmit Stargate traffic? This would presumably depend on the details of how Stargate gets set up as an organization, which (a) I'm not in a position to comment on, and (b) hadn't been settled yet anyway last I heard. -- Usenet(n): AT&T scheme to earn revenue from otherwise-unused Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology late-night phone capacity. {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,pyramid}!utzoo!henry
jsq@im4u.UUCP (John Quarterman) (07/09/86)
There have been a couple of recent questions about what is going on
with Stargate and some curiousity as to what the involvement of USENIX is.
I can make a few comments as a USENIX Board member, though this isn't
a position statement on the part of the whole board.
In April, USENIX posted in their ;login: newsletter and on several
USENET newsgroups a request for proposals on how to improve UUCP mail
service and USENET news service. A few comments were received in
return, but no detailed proposals. In particular, no one submitted
a business plan for an organization to handle the improvements.
Due to this lack of response, the Board decided to become more involved.
Several board members are currently working directly with Lauren
and with other well-known USENET and UUCP community members.
There is nothing to report yet because our efforts are all
directed at producing a plan, and because this involves some
rather delicate negotiations with several other organizations.
We hope to have a plan put together by the October board meeting,
after which a brief report to the public should be possible.
The request for proposals is still open. If you have an actual
plan for how to improve service on UUCP or USENET, you can still
submit it. I can post the request again if there is interest.
Meanwhile, some board members are watching this newsgroup,
and opinions of the community are being considered.
--
John Quarterman, UUCP: {gatech,harvard,ihnp4,pyramid,seismo}!ut-sally!im4u!jsq
ARPA Internet and CSNET: jsq@im4u.UTEXAS.EDU, jsq@sally.UTEXAS.EDUdennisg@pwcs.UUCP (Dennis Grittner) (07/10/86)
Well, I would like to ask a few question and mention a few minor problems that my site has with the status of Stargate. First, we are NOT Usenix members - the old $$ problem, but we might be relatively soon so we have little access to information about Stargate. Second, we are relatively new to usenet etc. so or perspective is somewhat limited - BUT WE LIKE IT ALOT. The City of Saint Paul has this cable system here and the vendor has some $$ that is set aside for certain 'demonstration projects' and other things that the City might want and the vendor might be able to resell ---- So I thought what about Stargate! Might be possible for us to have the Cable operator pick up the cost and thus do a service for the Unix community of Minnesota, etc. To-date, I haven't been able to get ANY real info about what costs might be involved for the 'blackbox', etc. I can't really get them to go with a project that has an unknown cost factor - if I could ever get them to go with this project even with KNOWN costs. I realize that some negotiation must be done, etc - but it would be nice if 'the rest of us' could be given a SLIGHT idea of WHATEVER is going on. Thanks to all who are doing anything to try and make usenet and uucp better - I'm really NOT a griper I appreciate what all of you might or are doing. I would appreciate any info from any usenix board member(s) or anybody else who is 'involved'. It might be nice if these responses could be posted to the net as then everybody could read them BUT if the response would contain any info that is 'touchy' or whatever I would appreciate receiving it by E-Mail and I promise that it won't be reprinted in the Wall Street Journal or anywhere else. Again, thanks to all of you that are trying to make usenet better! Dennis Grittner City of Saint Paul Computer Services Department of Public Works 612-298-4402 Room 700, 25 West 4th St. St. Paul, Minn. 55102 Disclaimer: My employer not only doesn't know what I do or why, they are frightened by most of it!
lauren@vortex.UUCP (07/11/86)
Very briefly... As far as I can see, there would be no requirement that an organization be a "regular" member of Usenix to partake of Stargate services. There will be no requirement, for example, that all Stargate subscribers be Unix users. It is likely that a separate entity will be established to operate the service, though this entity may be closely allied with and/or supported by Usenix in various ways. This entity will have its own membership/ subscription criteria for its own services. This isn't in concrete of course--just an expression of my personal thinking on the matter. As for cable companies, etc... In the vast majority of cases, there will be no need for subscribers to get "special" cooperation from local cable companies to receive Stargate services. If the cable already carries satellite-received WTBS, the probability is very high that the data will be available and usable as is. Any special considerations that might be required regarding particular cable companies would be handled by the Stargate organization dealing directly with those companies, not by subscribers themselves. --Lauren--
henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (07/13/86)
> ...To-date, I haven't been able to get ANY real info > about what costs might be involved for the 'blackbox', etc. I > can't really get them to go with a project that has an unknown > cost factor... If you expect a written quotation, I suspect you're just going to have to wait until the current round of negotiations is finished. Rough numbers can be derived from Lauren's previous public utterances. (I have no special inside information.) If the cable company gets WTBS, they already have the signal on their premises; if not, they'll need dish and receiver, which they should be able to price themselves. That would suffice to send the existing signal out to their customers. It's not clear why they would need any more than that. If they decode the stuff themselves, they would then presumably have to re-encode it to get it to the customers. This seems a bit pointless. Lauren has mentioned costs of $500 for decoder and maybe $200 for buffer box in the past. There is a possibility that the hardware would be available only on a rental basis. There's also probably going to be some sort of subscription fee, since there will be real costs involved in running the service. If the result is going to be significantly cheaper than current approaches, the fee would probably have to be at most hundreds a year. If it gets up into four digits the market will drop dramatically. -- Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,pyramid}!utzoo!henry
lauren@vortex.UUCP (Lauren Weinstein) (07/14/86)
The current thinking is that both box purchase and rental options would be desirable--different organizations have different views regarding capital expenditures vs. recurring charges. The probability is that service fees would vary based on level of service desired, with a variety of services offered from which organizations (and individuals) could choose. Obviously, an overriding concern is to keep the overall, total cost to any given subscriber as low as possible. --Lauren--