mwm@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA (03/04/85)
In article <1426@dciem.UUCP> mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) writes: >In the normal course of social change, Libertaria should have occurred >by chance, if not by design, and probably more than once. According to >the libertarian argument, it should then have thrived and grown quickly >strong, being better than its neighbours on both economic and ethical >grounds. We should now see several Libertarias, if not a world full of >them. But we see none, and no evidence that any ever existed. This is only half the truth, Martin. Yes, a libertarian society will thrive and grow strong, being better than its neighbours on both economic and ethical grounds. However, it will also grow less libertarian. The problem can be summed up in a simple, empirical fact: 1) Any organization is run for the benefit of the people who run the organization. Thus, the government of a libertarian state is run for the benefit of the people in the government. Usually, this means that they will try to acquire power for the positions they hold, which is to their benefit, but not to the long-term benefit of the state. The US makes a good working example of this: it started as a relatively libertarian state, grew strong and etc., and slid (is sliding) into a totalitarian-socialism [and before the flames start, no, I do *not* think those two are inevitebly coupled]. >The contradiction can be resolved by eliminating any one of several >assumptions: (1) No Libertaria has yet existed, and therefore none >has had the chance to show its quality; (2) The best does not necessarily >survive, which implies that the arguments usually proposed in favour >of Libertaria are faulty; (3) Libertaria would not work the way its >supporters claim. (2) implies (3), and my personal belief is that >all 3 statements are true. Number one is correct, as libertarians, unlike other religious fanatics, aren't willing to use force to establish a state that runs on libertarian principles. However, since you ignored statement one above, three is also correct. But you only misstated how a libertarian government grows over time, now how a libertarian society behaves otherwise. >If an approach to libertarian principles would make a society stronger >than a retreat from them, we would expect an inevitable drift toward >Libertaria, rather than just an expansion of it when it occurred by >chance. This also renders suspect the grandiose claims of the libertarians. An approach to libertarian principles leads to a stronger society, but it is not of direct benefit to the people running the government. In general, such a drift is of negative benefit to those people, as it gives them less power over the lives of citizens. Statement one thus implies that the natural drift is *away* from libertarian principles, not towards them. Having answered that, let me make a challenge to other libertarians, socialists, and everybody else out there. Can you build a constitution for a state that runs on your favorite principles, and will continue doing so even in the face of a malicious government working within the constitution? By "malicious government," I mean that those running the government are primarily interested in their own welfare, and the state and its citizens can go to h*ll. Obviously, if your principles are "all power to the government, and the state and its citizens can go to h*ll," [totalitarian dictatorships] then you have no problems. It seems to me that you must rig things so that supporting your principles leads to direct and obvious benefits (more power, more wealth) for the government worker. Anything else will probably be temporary. Note that those malicious government workers get to interpret your constitution *their* way, including assigning priorities to clauses, so even something as clear as "all other rights and powers are reserved for the X" can be ignored under the right conditions. <mike
laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton) (03/06/85)
Setting a hard limit on the number of civil sevants -- perhaps as a fraction of the entire population -- will help. Laura Creighton utzoo!laura