josh@topaz.ARPA (J Storrs Hall) (01/01/70)
> sevener > Let me suggest a brand-new, radical idea: how about allowing > "meta-governments" in the *same country*! Imagine how many problems > with emigration and so forth this solves. How would this system work? Whoo! I thought for a minute there that tim had independently invented the concept of private protection agencies, among which the people could choose freely. My faith in human nature was restored, however as tim revealed that all he had in mind was voting, that mass-opiate wherein the State disguises its predations with a cloak of legitimacy. --JoSH
cliff@unmvax.UUCP (03/23/85)
> Let me suggest a brand-new, radical idea: how about allowing > "meta-governments" in the *same country*! Imagine how many problems > with emigration and so forth this solves. How would this system work? > Well, perhaps you might have different levels of government and > people could choose which one they wished to live in based on their > local government. Moreover people could even choose the government > they liked: if they didn't like one they could replace it with another. > This system would be in place at all levels, from the whole country > to different regions, to different cities and smaller areas. > > Sound like a wonderful idea? An excellent idea, but far more untenable than my suggestions. I vote for a miniscule country consisting of one person, me. My vote is unanimously for. Hence the only laws on my land are those I wish to write down... Goody! No victimless crime laws (inc. prostitution, drug use, minimum wage, etc.). First thing I would do is contact as many of my libertarian cohorts as possible and plan a relocation into a contiguous section of land so we can protect our rights as soon as someone decides to take them away from us... > What do you think we have now? I think we have a huge bureaucracy based republic. > If you don't like the government we > have now, then vote to change it! And everything is good, because the politicians are marvelous people who don't succumb to the same faults as non-politicians. > That is your right in a democracy. I have pointed out many times that there are very few things that one can vote on directly in this country--hence we are a republic first. The fact that we vote on some things means that democratic is an appropriate adjective to toss somewhere into the description of our country, but we are still by and large a republic. Before everyone jumps on me and whines "but I was taught in elementary school that this is a democracy and democracy is easier to spell than republic so I will continue to use an incredibly incorrect term anyway," please examine the context in which I brought this up in. The direct claim is that "If you don't like the government we have now, then vote to change it! That is your right in a democracy." The direct claim is not correct--if we don't like the people we have in the government right now we can vote to change them--we can not directly vote to change the government except in rare consequences (which always entails more indirection than is immediately obvious). The most powerful change that we can "vote" on is the calling of the next constitutional convention, but the votes are cast by the states, and the convention is still run by representatives, rather than general elections. The indirect claim that our current system is comparable to a meta-government idea is more foolish. A meta-government has a minimalist government on top with few restrictions on the countries below them. Our system has a *huge* government on top and innumerable restrictions on the countries below them. Many restrictions is bad enough, but our government really can not enumerate all the restrictions on lesser governments, for Supreme Court decisions frequently take away from or add to states powers. > If you don't like the current party in power then vote for another one. And if the current party in power doesn't like you they will do their best to prevent you from voting in another via redistricting and limiting of campaign expenditures... > what do you say out there? You asked for it--you got it... > tim sevener whuxl!orb --Cliff