[net.politics.theory] Turkey in the Straw

gjk@talcott.UUCP (Greg Kuperberg) (04/03/85)

...
> My attempts to challenge the *assumptions* of Libertarianism are entirely
> legitimate and cannot be refuted by simply labelling such challenges
> as "strawman" arguments. 
>                          tim sevener   whuxl!orb

Now that we've had a flame from an "anti-Libertarian" about having his
articles labelled strawman arguments, I must ask the $64,000 question:
Exactly what do you think that the Libertarians believe, Tim?  The last
time someone asked this question, he got a bunch of responses to the tune
of "Libertarianism is the root of all evil, while Socialism is the human
race's salvation and destiny."  But I don't want anything like that.  No,
Tim, imagine a gentle, warm-hearted, and intelligent Libertarian.  They do
exist, you know.  Anyway, what do you think such a person would believe?
What would be the backbone of his/her philosophy?

And why am I posting this to the net instead of mailing it?  Because this
is not just a question to Tim, this is an opinion poll.  If you feel your
definition of Libertarianism shows a unique perspective, then please post
your answer to the question in the previous paragraph.  If you don't, then
please mail your opinion to me.  I will summarize the results after a week
or so.  Also, please specify whether or not you are pro-, anti-, or neutral
to Libertarianism.
-- 
			Greg Kuperberg
		     harvard!talcott!gjk

"No Marxist can deny that the interests of socialism are higher than the
interests of the right of nations to self-determination." -Lenin, 1918

fagin@ucbvax.ARPA (Barry Steven Fagin) (04/04/85)

Hey guys, please don't dignify Tim's posting with a reply.  We know
how we feel, we've tried to explain it rationally, and we're all
pissed at Tim's accusations, so let's just let it slide.  Instead,
let's stick to the issues, show the libertarian perspective, and
patiently explain why we think it makes sense.  


--Barry

-- 
Barry Fagin @ University of California, Berkeley

rdz@ccice5.UUCP (Robert D. Zarcone) (04/04/85)

> 
> And why am I posting this to the net instead of mailing it?  Because this
> is not just a question to Tim, this is an opinion poll.  If you feel your
> definition of Libertarianism shows a unique perspective, then please post
> your answer to the question in the previous paragraph.  If you don't, then
> please mail your opinion to me.  I will summarize the results after a week
> or so.  Also, please specify whether or not you are pro-, anti-, or neutral
> to Libertarianism.
> -- 
> 			Greg Kuperberg
> 		     harvard!talcott!gjk
> 

Talk about a fire starter!  OK, I'll bite.  I don't like Libertarianism (and
generally, libertarians).  I don't like any political, social, or philosophical
order that would determine "might makes right".  I know that's not a "definition
of Libertarianism", but it is, in a nut shell, a pretty good indication of the
underlying philosophy of this movement.

BTW, Libertarians, don't flame me.  I consider you as viable an alternative to
the Republicrats and Democrans as I do the Right-to-Life or Wrokers World
parties.  Therefore, I see no reason to treat your attacks with any more
concern than I would their's.

	*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***

laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton) (04/08/85)

I am not clear where you got the notion that libertarianism is connected
to ``might makes right'', unless it is that libertarians are rather
quick to tell you that they will protect their property rights. Instead
libertarians of all sorts think that certain human rights are sacred,
which seems counter to the ``might makes right'' philosophy. There is
some disagreement as to what these rights are, and there is some disagreement
as to how best to see that these rights are respected, and there is
disagreement as to whom should have these rights (no, no, not whether
Blacks or Jews or some race should have them but -- what about tourists
in libertaria? and children?) but I haven't seen any disagreement that
there *are* rights.

Where did you get this strange notion about libertarianism? Have I been
sloppy? 

By the way, I am about hald done writing a huge ``magnum opus'' :-) which
explains (for once and for all :-) ) where morals and rights come from.
A fairly large proportion of libertarians will be in agreement with this
statement (with a lot of quibbles. Libertarians love to quibble.) It
plunks me quite solidly in the ``might does not make right'' camp. I
will post this soon -- I think that it may be another ``life, the
universe and everything explained -- in 7 parts''. 

Laura Creighton
utzoo!laura