[net.politics.theory] Response to tony w on labor theory of value...

myers@uwmacc.UUCP (Jeff Myers) (05/10/85)

> 
> Also, you wanted to say that your comment about utility value helps show
> the value of the labor theory of value.  I doubt it.  The problem with
> the labor theory of value is that values depend on prices and not the
> other way around, which is what Marx might have been asserting.

Actually, I meant it more generally to emphasize the emphasis which Marx
puts on use- vs. exchange-value in Capital I.  It really doesn't have much
to do with the labor theory of value per se, which I had implied.

> 
> See John Roemer, *A General Theory of Exploitation and Class*, first chapter,
> for a clear and non-mathematical explanation of this point of view.  He
> shows that a rigorous mathematical formulation of all of the basic Marxist
> contentions about exploitation can be maintained without reference to a
> labor theory of value, and that if these contentions are maintained in
> a mathematical model, then value (defined by Marxists as a function of
> labor times) can be shown to depend on the price structure.
> 
> Jon Elster has argued recently that the labor theory of value is still
> an important and useful rhetorical tool in Marxist organizing, since
> the conclusions that follow from it are the same as the more rigorous
> ones, and the reasoning that makes these conclusions "follow" is easier
> for less educated workers to understand and more relevant in terms of
> their own livelihoods.  But that's the only defense of the labor theory
> of value I currently accept.
> 
> I doubt this letter would persuade you, so take a look at Roemer and what
> Elster you can find and check it out.  I've heard that Erik Olin Wright,
> a Marxist sociologist at Wisconsin, became a Roemer convert recently.

Indeed, Erik has become a Roemerian, and has used his outlook on exploitation
to modify his own ``contradictory class location'' theorization.  In one of
Erik's courses I did read the last part of Roemer's book and a fair bit of
Elster.  Marxist theory is far from stagnant these days, and that's very
good.  For instance, I think Roemer's theorization of various forms of
exploitation is particularly helpful in understanding the various
post-capitalist societies around the world today.

> 
> Marxist ECONOMISTS that support the labor theory of value are a dying breed,
> although they will likely continue to twitch as long as they keep getting
> published.  It will probably take a change of generations before they
> completely die out, like most scientific revolutions.

Well, I guess that this is true in the sense that physicists don't take
Newton seriously anymore since General Relativity came along.  I still feel
that the labor theory of value is of explanatory use in depicting what goes
on in a capitalist economy as a close approximation, just as Newton's
physics is still of use.

> 
> Tony Wuersch
> {amd,amdcad}!cae780!ubvax!tonyw

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