[net.politics.theory] Social Order and Mayhem : Re to Cram

nrh@inmet.UUCP (07/07/85)

>/**** inmet:net.politics.t / umcp-cs!mangoe /  6:30 pm  Jul  5, 1985 ****/
>In article <2380080@acf4.UUCP> mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) writes:
>>If roads were private, these problems would be mitigated.  There might well
>>be roads with different safety factors.  Motorists could to some extent
>>choose the level of speed/risk appropriate for them.
>
>This is pure speculation, and ignores the demonstrted fact that large
>variations in speed cause the most accidents.  

I think you've misinterpreted the idea.  The idea is that a private
road-owner would set the speed-limits of the roads he owns (just
as public road-owners do now).  On a given road, there's no reason
to suspect that people would vary in their speeds any more than they
do now.

>In any case, the owners of
>the roads would have to form some sort of agency to coordinate things like
>traffic signs, which side of the road to drive on, etc.  

Sure!  Actually, probably they'd use some ANSI standard, or whatever
was left of the highway code, rather than form a new agency.

>Such a group would
>then enjoy monopoloy power over the roads with the right (as Mike has
>claimed) to deny service anyone for any reason.  This is quite obviously
>tyranny.

This would make ANSI a tyranny also.  I'll live with it.  In other words,
the existence of such an agency in a libertarian society would not
force private road-owners to subscribe to all of its ideas.

>>>This confusion between *individual/particular* interests and the
>>>*average/collective* interests is peculiarly bred by capitalist ideology.
>>>Everyone is told that "anyone can become a millionaire".
>
>>This Alger Hiss mentality is not what libertarianism is about, at least for
>>me.  As I see it, libertarianism is about letting people do what they want
>>so long as they don't violate rights of others.  If what one want is to
>>become a millionaire, one is free to pursue such dreams.  Libertarianism
>>does not require such aspirations or even encourage them per se.
>
>{It's Horatio Alger, not Alger Hiss.]  Isn't letting people do what they
>want without violating the rights of others the state aim of the current
>government?  

That's nice.  It does not, of course, matter what the "aim" of the
government is, merely what it does, what laws it passes, and so forth.
That I prefer a hypothetical government that explicitly limits its
intrusion into my life to a real one one that does not (and will not) is
not, I think, unreasonable, particularly given that the real one began
with fairly strict limits on what rights the government had with respect
to people and that states.

>It all depends on what rights you choose, and how you resolve
>conflicts between them.  Mike seems rather consistent in his assertion that
>the right to unrestricted liberty in the use of private property is supreme
>above all other rights.  I maintain that human beings are too prone to evil
>to be trusted with such a right.  The abuses of economic power by the likes
>of the Rockefellers, Vanderbilts and Goulds is sufficient evidence for me.
>Mike has proposed nothing which would check their power, and indeed, he is
>quite adamant they have the right to such abuses.  I suggest that it is no
>wonder that Mike's views are not held by working people, but by professors,
>bankers, and businessmen.

So?  A viewpoint's validity is determined in some way by what business
the holders are in?  As for checking the abuses of millionaires, you'll
find that the very worst ones are state-supported.