mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (09/04/85)
In article <3517@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> josh@topaz.UUCP (J Storrs Hall) writes: >I believe that the extent of government intervention in the economy >of the western european democracies, including the "socialist" ones >such as Sweden and France, are quite comparable to the US levels, >consisting of direct control of about 40% of the economy and a >complex and pervasive web of regulations over the rest. I have plenty >of bones to pick with these "mixed economy" democracies, but the >socialist ideals have considerably modified by realpolitik in practice >(here and in Western Europe). To judge the socialist ideals themselves >we must look to places where they have been put into practice without >distorting them over such minutiae as human rights. Thus we must look >further east. Seems to me that it's more than a little questionable as to whether there has ever been any attempt in any Soviet bloc country to "put socialist ideals into practice." You'll find more socialists in youir local trappist monastery. >I repeat: The western democracies, American and European, represent >ideological arenas where the actual policies are an amalgam of free- >market and socialist ideals. Socialists may not legitimately claim >any credit for the ameliorative effect of the resistance to their >programs. The Eastern European countries are valid demonstrations >of where those programs would lead without such resistance. What about China? Seems to me as though they have quite deliberately turned away from much of the Stalinist sort of rhetoric and abuses. Charley Wingate
laura@l5.uucp (Laura Creighton) (09/06/85)
Yes, you will find real working Socialism in Trappist Monasteries. But you will only find people who want to live in a Trappist Monastery in them. -- Laura Creighton (note new address!) sun!l5!laura (that is ell-five, not fifteen) l5!laura@lll-crg.arpa