info-kermit@ucbvax.ARPA (05/18/85)
From: Frank da Cruz <SY.FDC@CU20B.ARPA>
Info-Kermit Digest Fri, 17 May 1985 Volume 2 : Number 29
Here is HP110 Kermit
Omnet gives very silly criticism of KERMIT
C-Kermit 4C for 2.9BSD
Minor Kermit-11 Update On The Way
Printing Kermit Docs on X2700?
KERMIT for BBS's?
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Date: Fri, 17 May 85 14:30:34 mdt
From: dwf@LANL.ARPA (Dave Forslund)
Subject: Here is HP110 Kermit
Attached is the file MSXHP110.ASM which is the system-specific source for
MS-KERMIT running on the HP110 Portable. It should be used in place of
MSXGEN.ASM in making the executable. We have used this code for about 2
months. The MSXGEN.ASM file from CU20B was modified by Chuck Aldrich here
at Los Alamos and allows the changing of baud rates and the selection of
the serial port or the internal modem. However, we have not tested the
internal modem code. The default setting is the serial port (Port 1) and
9600 baud.
The HP110 does not have built-in Basic, so the .BOO file bootstrapping
technique won't work. But it does have a built-in terminal program which
can be used to capture a file. The terminal program also has the XMODEM
protocol built in. This can be used to capture binary files.
The way we brought the source over was to download it with MS-KERMIT on an
IBM-PC and move the file to the HP110 with the special IBM board that HP
makes which allows the two machines to communicate directly to each other's
disks. We have also modified the Turbo-Pascal Kermit to run under MS-DOS
on the HP110. If you have Turbo-Pascal, then you could use it to ship over
the MS-Kermit source, or executable.
David Forslund (dwf@LANL.ARPA)
[Ed. - Thanks! The source file has been placed in the Kermit distribution
area as KER:MSXHPX.ASM, and the above message (plus some parts that were
left out) in KER:MSXHPX.HLP. Note the strange filename -- Unfortunately,
MSXHP110 is not distinguishable within six characters from MSXHP150, which
was already there.]
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Date: 16 May 85 13:22 +0100
From: Jacob_Palme_QZ%QZCOM.MAILNET@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
Subject: Omnet gives very silly criticism of KERMIT
The following very silly and mean criticism of KERMIT was given in a
newsletter called "Sciencenet/news" published by Omnet, Inc., 70 Tonawanda
Street, Boston, MA 02124.
First a picture is given of a princess, frightened by an ugly frog, and
saying the words: "YYYYYUK! You're incompatible!".
Then comes the following text:
Software of the Month: KERMIT The Incompatible
Trying to adjust to the fast-paced world of micro-computers instills its own
brand of future shock on everyone. What we long for is simplicity and
consistency, byt instead seem to get arbitrary rules and conventions.
Recently, a new group of users, who had been using the public comain
communications software KERMIT, signed on with SCIENCEnet. They hoped to be
able to continue use this software package, which they had already mastered.
KERMIT is a perfectly good communications package, - providing that you
limit yourself to communicating with other systems which are also using
KERMIT! And that's where the catch is.
Some communications software packages, KERMIT among them, only allow files
to be sent between computers using the same software. The advantage is that
it allows for a certain amount of error checking to take place. This is
advantageous because it eliminates problems introduced by bad phone lines
over long distances. (Since calls to SCIENCEnet are local, this isn't likely
to be a problem.)
Many commercial communication packages offer the best of both worlds. For
instance, using a micro software package such as Crosstalk, micro-to-micro
file transfer with error checking over phone lines is possible. But, and
this is the critical point, with most commercially available communications
software packages, it is also possible hook up to SCIENCEnet to talk with
all other systems.
And herein lies the difference: with KERMIT, alas! the package only talks to
other KERMITs; it won't talk to SCIENCEnet -- or anybody else!
--- --- ---
My comment on the above: No file transfer protocol with error correction
facilities will be able to talk to any computer except a computer which
implements the same file transfer protocol. The only possible way to do
something more would be to write a file transfer program which can switch
between several different protocols, and there is nothing in KERMIT which
forbids such implementations. Because of its wide acceptance in the
scientific community, KERMIT is however certainly the protocol which has
largest changes of being possible to use between different makes of
computers.
The correct formulation of the above message in "Sciencenet/news" should
perhaps read like this "We have not implemented KERMIT on our computer,
therefore we think KERMIT is bad for you (and us)!".
[Ed. - Thanks for the kind words, Jacob. The silliest part about the
article is that Kermit is a particular file transfer protocol -- it's not
commercial a product like Crosstalk that may embody several different
protocols -- so of course it's incompatible with other file transfer
protocols. There are indeed many commercial and public domain programs that
provide Kermit alongside one or more other protocols, usually in conjunction
with a fancy terminal emulator and lots of menus. In addition, many of the
Kermit programs in the Columbia distribution allow "raw file capture" for
getting files from systems that don't have Kermit; some allow "raw file
transmission" as well. I wonder what system SCIENCEnet runs? Kermit is
available at last count for about 120 machine/operating system combinations.]
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From: Paul Graham <unr70!unrvax!pjg@seismo.ARPA>
Date: 16 May 1985 1713-PDT (Thursday)
Subject: C-Kermit 4C for 2.9BSD
Ok, when I first sent in the report on the 2.9 problem I was in debug mode
and hadn't looked at ckutio.c from a global perspective. I have since, and
understand the initrawq() stuff. It is completely unecessary in 2.9 which
has the same tty-i/o as 4.2. So unless someone else is looking at the
problem I will convert the 2.9 version to use 4.2 style i/o (FION etc.).
This still may require a change to the makefile (which I had no problems
with BTW).
PS - The proc table is the in-core table of process info, which can be
examined in V7 to find out how many characters are in the input queue
(yuck).
[Ed. - I guess this means we'll soon have a BSD29 conditional, which takes
the BSD4 path for tty i/o and the V7 path for everything else.]
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Date: 17 MAY 85 09:40-EST
From: BRIAN%UOFT02.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA
Subject: Minor Kermit-11 Update On The Way
A minor update of Kermit-11 will be sent to Columbia on 20-May. It fixes a
problem in requesting 8bit quoting with parity, minor TSX+ problems again
(fixes thanks from Ned Rhodes), and a couple of new SET options to control
file creation superceding and determination of 'binary' files. As soon as I
put P/OS back on my pro and test it this weekend I will send it along. This
is the version that will be on all the SIG tapes at spring Decus.
Meanwhile, updates can be obtained as described earlier from my 11/785 via
either UOFT01 KERMSRV (bitnet) or the dialup procedure stated last week.
brian nelson
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Date: Fri, 17 May 85 11:13:11 EDT
From: poole@NUSC-ADA
Subject: Printing Kermit Docs on Xerox 2700?
Does anyone know of or have public domain fonts for the XEROX 2700II laser
printer? The Kermit docs don't format properly with a 10 cpi font, which is
all we have. We will be ordering more fonts form XEROX, but the internal
paperwork takes a couple of months. Thanks for your time,
Ken Poole
401-841-2648.
[Ed. - Maybe this question should be sent to Laser-Lovers. I thought that
the Scribe device drivers provided by Unilogic for any particular device
supported the minimal font set for that device and did not require you to
have any special fonts. If the Kermit docs don't format properly with the
fonts you have, maybe your Scribe database is messed up -- wrong width
information, for instance. By the way, at Columbia we print our Kermit
manuals and other Scribe MSS files on the Xerox 9700 in Univers10 font, on
the Imagen LBP-10 with CMR10, and on various less interesting devices --
lineprinters, Diablos, plain text for online doc files, etc -- with very
little trouble. Of course, the fancier the device -- and the Scribe support
for it -- the better the results. This brings up a related question: why do
we use Scribe, rather than, say, a public-domain formatter like TeX? The
reason is simply that TeX can not produce plain text doc files for online
reading or for printing on ordinary terminals and printers. Scribe is
widely available (implementations exist on DEC-10/20's, VAXes (UNIX and
VMS), IBM mainframes, etc), and Scribe-like formatters are also included
with various microcomputer word processing systems like Final Word, Perfect
Writer, etc.]
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Date: 17-MAY-1985 14:58 EST
From: WILLIAMS3@IU-BACS.MAILNET
Subject: KERMIT for BBS's?
Has anyone implemented KERMIT in an electronic BBS ? We would be interested in
obtaining a copy. Here at IUPUI we have an BBS that is written in BASIC, and
runs on an IBM PC-XT and uses XMODEM. Since we are giving KERMIT programs away
free we feel it would be nice if our BBS also allowed file transfers using
KERMIT.
Jim Griffin
Microcomputer Systems Group
IUPUI
799 W. Michigan ET-1023
Indianapolis, IN 46202
Incidently, we use KERMIT on all our mainframes and are very pleased with its
operation.
[Ed. - The only one I know about is FIDO, which supports Kermit, Modem7,
Xmodem, and some other protocols, and provides electronic mail via FIDONET,
using dialup between nodes at prescheduled times. FIDONET mainly runs on
MS-DOS systems (like the DEC Rainbow, the IBM PC family, etc). The
FIDO-related files are available on ARPANET from SIMTEL20 via anonymous FTP
from the directory MICRO:<CPM.FIDO>; if you don't have FTP access to
ARPANET, I can't say how to get them, but you can mail to Douglas Good or
Scott Aschcraft, CMP.DOUG@UTEXAS-20.ARPA (FIDO SYSOPs) for more
information.]
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End of Info-Kermit Digest
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