speaker@umcp-cs.UUCP (Animals) (11/27/84)
I hear there's a net.religion.christianity.... way to go guys! Hey, here's a question for you. What's you favorite scolarly research Bible? I'd like something that will get me as close to the original research and ancient texts as I can and without all of the flowery crud one usually finds in the Bible. The NIV Oxford Scofield Study text looks good, but expensive. Is this thing just a waste of money or what? Questions questions questions. - Speaker speaker!umcp-cs
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/29/84)
The only thing which will genuinely do what you ask is to split the quest into two sub-quests: 1.) Regarding the Jewish Bible, use the Masoretic Hebrew, the Septuagint Greek and the Dead Sea Scrolls to establish the best reading of the Hebrew (yes, the Greek sometimes helps to support the Hebrew reading when used along with the Dead Sea Scrolls... read the book on the DSS by Yadin and also by Allegro - both books). If you are not able to do this, don't fool yourself that you are. If you can't penetrate beyond the English then your best bet is to use the Jewish Publication Society version (The Torah, The Prophets, and The Writings, three volumes) AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS NOT(!!) AUTHORITIVE AND DOES NOT(!!) DO WHAT YOU REALLY WANT... IT ONLY APPROXIMATES IT SOMEWHAT. 2.) If you are including the 'New Testament' in your definition, then the best you can do is go to the Novum Testamentum Graeca published by the American Bible Society, replace Vaticanus readings with Sinaiticus readings and consider Peshitta readings and the earlier papyrii readings and translate it yourself with the help of something like the Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testament. Be sure to find the best English word for each Greek word, translate it that way literally and then try to understand THAT translation rather than substitue other English words like most translaters have done. That interjects too much bias of Christian translaters into the text - ALWAYS. There is NO substitue for this method and NO English version which will do what you asked. Other aids are available to help most anyone translate for themselves if they have enough concern to learn the Greek alphabet and put in some time... it doesn't go fast if you are a beginner. Nevertheless, you can take the Englishman's Greek Concordance and a Parsing Guide to the Greek New Testament, along with Vine's, and with some determination you can do it. I'm telling you that if you do not do this for yourself, you WILL be deceived!
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/29/84)
Didn't notice that this was also being routed to net.religion. Christian... please excuse.
lisa@phs.UUCP (Jeff Gillette) (12/01/84)
<> > What's you favorite scholarly research Bible? I'd like something that > will get me as close to the original research and ancient texts as I > can and without all of the flowery crud one usually finds in the Bible. Really there's only two "scholarly research Bibles" - one in Greek and the other in Hebrew. My guess, however, is that you want something in English that will give a little more insight into the original languages. Let me suggest a handy little tool that "real scholars" don't use (at least they don't admit to using it) - an interlinear Bible. There are several on the market for Old Testament and New Testament. The basic format is alternating lines of Hebrew (or Greek), transliteration, and a literal English translation. Usually an English version (RSV, NASB, NIV, ETC) is in the margin to help you make sense of the text. I'm afraid these aren't cheap (last time I looked a reasonable New Testament volume might run upwards of $45, three volumes for the Old Testament might run as much as $100), but they are the only tool I know of to get someone who doesn't know the languages into the original text. > The NIV Oxford Scofield Study text looks good, but expensive. > Is this thing just a waste of money or what? I know nothing about the NIV Scofield Bible, but, two words of warning. First, I was brought up on the old KJV Scofield Bible. CI Scofield was a layman around the turn of the century whose devotional and theological footnotes on selected texts popularized a particular approach to theology called dispensationalism. Without getting into an theological argument, let me simply suggest that dispensationalism (and Scofield) have been very controversial, and are generally considered "scholarly" only in some "fundamentalist" circles (and at one seminary of reputation - in Dallas). In short, Scofield is an interesting character, but unless his particular theology is what you want, consider another "scholarly" Bible. The second word of warning. I haven't found a "study Bible" yet that I consider worth buying. The reason is that the only thing to study are the personal observations of the writer(s) - most of which are interesting the first time through, but become old quickly, or, worse, are mis- representing theological hobby-horses for an explanation of the text. A Bible with a good concordance is better than a Bible with "explanatory" notes (a little cross-reference work and you can write your own notes), and a good set of maps will probably tell you more than an "introductory paragraph" for each book. If you want to do careful study of texts in the Bible, consider getting some good commentaries. The Expositor's Bible Commentary (6 of 12 volumes now available) is an excellent lay commentary written by top-notch scholars. In Old Testament, the Tyndale OT Commentary (24 volumes) is outstanding. For New Testament, the Proclamation Commentaries give a lot of good background, but the Word commentaries (much deeper) pay more attention to the text. If all of this sounds expensive, most of these commentaries can be bought one volume at a time (and most of them are paperback). For thematic study, look for tools that show a knowledge of the original languages. The best New Testament tool is the 3 volume New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology. This contains articles arranged by English word, with sections on the term in the OT, literature between the testaments, NT, and early Christian writings. The best encyclopedia I've found is the new International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (3 of 5 volumes out). There is an old ISBE (circa 1920), so be sure to look for the new edition. Most important, of course, is a good concordance. Most good versions of the Bible have complete concordances available, but the most useful tool I can suggest is the Englishman's Greek Concordance and the Englishman's Hebrew Concordance. These jewels let you look up a Hebrew or Greek word, but give all the information in English. The bad news is that everything in this paragraph is *expensive*. But, then, consider how much money you spent on that last *computer* book! I guess I've gone on a bit much for a simple question, but I hope the information is helpful. Jeff Gillette duke!phs!lisa The Divinity School Duke University
cfiaime@ihnp4.UUCP (Jeff Williams) (12/02/84)
As a Sunday School teacher, I have found it quite important to have a good cross reference for Bible study. So far, I am quite impressed with the Thompson's Chain Reference Bible in the NIV translation. The book itself is almost 1900 pages, with 600 pages of cross reference information, charts, study guides, historical data, and the like. I have not really been able to totally study the reference section nearly as well as I would like, simply due to time. I also use the "Concordia Self Study Commentary" published by Concordia Publishing Company of St. Louis. (This is a good Lutheran firm, run by a good Lutheran synod, for good Lutherans.) Add to this the "Lutheran Cyclopedia," also out of Concordia, and you have a fairly good lay person's quick and dirty reference library. Certainly, not knowing Greek or Hebrew (yet) makes it more difficult because I can't go back to the original. But, a former Pastor in our congregation recommended these as about the best available for the teachers in the church. He used to lean towards the Harper's Study Bible, an RSV translation, but when the NIV Thompsons came along, recommended it. The Thompsons is available from any religious book store, as well as Waldens or B. Daltons. It runs from $30 on up, depending on the cover and paper. Mine is the $30 and is of very good quality. It should last me several years before it falls apart. By the way, for a good "utility" Bible, one for the office or for the Sunday School kids, I have found that the presentation edition of the NIV is quite good. Typically it runs about $7, again at the chain bookstores. Jeff Williams AT&T Bell Laboratories ihnp4!cfiaime
ram@decvax.UUCP (Ram Rao) (12/04/84)
In article <ihnp4.686> cfiaime@ihnp4.UUCP (Jeff Williams) writes: > >Certainly, not knowing Greek or Hebrew (yet) makes it more difficult because >I can't go back to the original. > > Jeff Williams > AT&T Bell Laboratories > ihnp4!cfiaime Well Jeff, there is still hope for some of the less learned amongst us to derive some of the benefits of the original texts without knowing the original languages. The Strong's Concordance comes in editions in which each word is associated with an index which uniquely identifies the word in the original language (Hebrew or Greek as the case may be). Hebrew and Greek lexicons found in the back of this concordance then give you the word in the original, some hints how to pronounce it, and various shades of meaning for that word. For those interested in pursuing word studies there are a number of other tools that are keyed into Strong's indexing scheme: 1. The Englishman's Greek Concordance. Using the index found in Strong's one can locate all occurences of the particular Greek word in the New Testament; this Concordance actually enumerates the King James rendering of the phrases containing that word. 2. The Englishman's Hebrew Concordance. Similar to 1. for Hebrew and O.T. 3. The Englishman's Greek Lexicon. A much more detailed lexicon than Strong's. 4. The Englishman's Hebrew Lexicon. I have used 1. extensively in personal Bible Study and found it rewarding. For example, when nominated for deacon, I wanted to study what the Bible said about deacons. I was surprised to find that the Greek word translated as "deacon" in 1 Tim 3:8 (and in fact every other place it appears) is the noun form of the verb in Mark 10:45 : For even the Son of Man did not come to be SERVED but to SERVE and to give His life a ransom for many. I am waiting for the day when these tools will be available on-line, so I won't have to have 3 books open in front of me, flipping pages and matching indices. I understand there is a small company in Austin, Texas that is working on computerized Bible tools along these lines. Ram Rao DEC Ultrix Engineering ihnp4!decvax!ram