dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (12/29/84)
> > For Jews who accept Jesus as the messiah, the sabbath is often still > > at this time. > > > > Julie Harazduk > > ihnp4!philabs!jah > > There is NO such thing as "Jews who accept Jesus as the messiah." People > who "accept Jesus as the messiah" are Christians -- no ifs, ands or buts > about it! > > Lynn Gold What about groups such as Jews for Jesus? What about people such as Julie Harazduk? How about Saul of Tarsus? Did he stop being Jewish when he became a Christian? In other words, I am interested in the reasoning behind your statements. -- Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois | "And the streets shall be full of boys and girls playing --+-- in the streets thereof..." | Zechariah 8:5 |
jah@philabs.UUCP (Julie Harazduk) (01/02/85)
> > For Jews who accept Jesus as the messiah, the sabbath is often still > > at this time. > > > > Julie Harazduk > > ihnp4!philabs!jah > > There is NO such thing as "Jews who accept Jesus as the messiah." People > who "accept Jesus as the messiah" are Christians -- no ifs, ands or buts > about it! > > Lynn Gold > Alumnus of the National Hebrew Honor Society and > employee of Tymnet, Inc. Well, here's one to prove it! I'm still a Jew by virtue of my birth! I'm also a Christian by virtue of my choice! I believe G-d keeps the promises He makes to His people and I've accepted the fullfillment of them. Besides, the Jewish nation is defined by descendancy--from Abraham's seed-- not by faith and actions towards G-d. For example, Gen. 17:4-7 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a G-d unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. (KJV) Plenty of times G-d had to turn His children toward Him and away from their sin (see Psalm 78). Sin is defined by the Law, so if Jesus isn't the Messiah, then I'm just another sinful Jew and if Jesus is the Messiah then I'm forgiven by the Grace of G-d. The word "Christian" is just another word for "Messiah believer", anyway. Julie Harazduk {inhp4|allegra}!philabs!jah Psalm 80:19 Turn us again, O Lord God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
myunive@nsc.UUCP (Jay Zelitzky) (01/03/85)
(Julie Harazduk) writes: > >Well, here's one to prove it! I'm still a Jew by virtue of my birth! >I'm also a Christian by virtue of my choice! I believe G-d keeps the >promises He makes to His people and I've accepted the fullfillment of >them. > >Besides, the Jewish nation is defined by descendancy--from Abraham's seed-- >not by faith and actions towards G-d. For example, > >.... > Sin is defined by the Law, so if Jesus isn't >the Messiah, then I'm just another sinful Jew and if Jesus is the Messiah >then I'm forgiven by the Grace of G-d. The word "Christian" is just another >word for "Messiah believer", anyway. > >Julie Harazduk >{inhp4|allegra}!philabs!jah > >Psalm 80:19 Turn us again, O Lord God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; >and we shall be saved. The question of being a "sinner" is a major difference between Judaism and Christianity. Jews do not believe people are born sinners so we do not need a mesiah to die for us in order to save us from sin. Jay {ihnp4,seismo,decwrl,hplabs}!nsc!myunive
rta@cmu-cs-spice.ARPA (Robert Aarhus) (01/07/85)
> "Jews do not believe people are born sinners so we do not need a > messiah to die for us in order to save us from sin." Is that why the Jews do not need a messiah? But wasn't it David, King of Israel, who wrote Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. (Ps 51:5) and Everyone has turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. (Ps 53:3) Was he not a Jew? And was it not Moses who said Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out. (Dt 27:26) Was he not also a Jew? And yet he condemns those who violate the Law just once. It seems, then, that any omission in following the Law causes condemnation as well.