seifert@mako.UUCP (Snoopy) (01/01/85)
>> > For Jews who accept Jesus as the messiah, the sabbath is often still >> > at this time. >> > >> > Julie Harazduk >> > ihnp4!philabs!jah >> >> There is NO such thing as "Jews who accept Jesus as the messiah." People >> who "accept Jesus as the messiah" are Christians -- no ifs, ands or buts >> about it! >> >> Lynn Gold > >What about groups such as Jews for Jesus? What about people such >as Julie Harazduk? > >How about Saul of Tarsus? Did he stop being Jewish when he became >a Christian? > >In other words, I am interested in the reasoning behind your statements. >-- >Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois Calm down, people! The dictionary is still packed away, but here goes: Jew: (1) person of the Jewish *faith* (2) person of the Jewish *race* (3) all of the above "race" really isn't the best word, but you get the idea. And anyone can convert to the Jewish faith, but that doesn't make them a member of the Jewish race. And not all persons of the Jewish race are of the Jewish faith. Thus you can have a "Christian Jew". (however strange it may sound) Remember also, Jesus was a Jew. _____ |___| the Bavarian Beagle _|___|_ Snoopy \_____/ tektronix!tekecs!seifert <- NEW ADDRESS !!! \___/
tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) (01/02/85)
To keep this in perspective, recall that there exist various Christian evangelical groups which seek to convert Jews to Christianity by dishonest means, specifically by pretending to be Jewish. (The infamous "Jews for Jesus" is, I understand, one such group, and was created by evangelizing Christians who had never been Jews.) They come across at first, that is, at the beginning of the semester, as a purely Jewish group, and have meetings where they discuss Jewish topics. Then they start bring up "The Prophet Yeheshua" who was "hung on a tree" and his sayings -- since most Jews are as ignorant of their religion as most Christians are of theirs, the audience thinks this is part of the Torah. It gradually becomes more and more Christianized, although only very late do the organizers let anyone in on this. As such, this is a deceptive and intolerable practice. And that, I'll wager, is why whoever it was objected to the phrase "Jews who happen to be Christians". Understandable in the light of the previous paragraph, even if you can make a case for the possibility of such a thing. To avoid the appearance of such impropriety, please refrain from such phrases. (This has been posted to net.religion.jewish as a warning to Jews who may be unfamiliar with this sort of evangelizing, and to invite first-hand accounts from any Jew who may have run into one of these groups.) -=- Tim Maroney, Carnegie-Mellon University Computation Center ARPA: Tim.Maroney@CMU-CS-K uucp: seismo!cmu-cs-k!tim CompuServe: 74176,1360 audio: shout "Hey, Tim!" "Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." Liber AL, II:9.
dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (01/11/85)
>>>> For Jews who accept Jesus as the messiah, the sabbath is often still >>>> at this time. >>>> >>>> Julie Harazduk >>>> ihnp4!philabs!jah >>> There is NO such thing as "Jews who accept Jesus as the messiah." People >>> who "accept Jesus as the messiah" are Christians -- no ifs, ands or buts >>> about it! >>> >>> Lynn Gold >>What about groups such as Jews for Jesus? What about people such >>as Julie Harazduk? >> >>How about Saul of Tarsus? Did he stop being Jewish when he became >>a Christian? [DuBois] > Calm down, people! Calm down? Who's excited? Good grief, you ask a question and right away people assume you have a bat hidden behind your back... Is this symptomatic of religious discussion? -- Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois | "And the streets shall be full of boys and girls playing --+-- in the streets thereof..." | Zechariah 8:5 |
dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (01/11/85)
> [Tim Maroney] > To keep this in perspective, recall that there exist various Christian > evangelical groups which seek to convert Jews to Christianity by dishonest > means, specifically by pretending to be Jewish. (The infamous "Jews for > Jesus" is, I understand, one such group, and was created by evangelizing > Christians who had never been Jews.) Jews for Jesus made up of non-Jews? Not true. -- Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois | "And the streets shall be full of boys and girls playing --+-- in the streets thereof..." | Zechariah 8:5 |
yosh@hou2e.UUCP (M.CHING) (01/15/85)
> Jews for Jesus made up of non-Jews? > > Not true. > -- > Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois > > "And the streets shall be full of boys and girls playing > in the streets thereof..." > Zechariah 8:5 Having been approached by members of "Jews for Jesus" a number of times, both at school and elsewhere, I can say without a doubt that most are prostletyzing Christians masquerading as Jews. Why these people feel the need to deceive others into "a better way of life" is beyond me..... Dave Bloom Bell Labs, Holmdel