strick@gatech.UUCP (henry strickland) (01/20/85)
[/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\zap] > I think I have already explained that I do not hate gays. Good. I try not to, also. > But, as already previously mentioned, you can not be a follower > of Jesus and practice those things which He taught against or which > the Bible taught against. Hmmmm... Christians are perfect? Actually, this isn't my main argument. This is just to confuse things. > God created a woman for Adam, not another man. Good thing, too. We wouldn't be here. > I am wondering if there is anyone out there who is homosexual and > considers themselves a Christian ( and why). Probably millions, considering 1 out of 6 is a pretty good estimate. Probably millions more, too, if some Christians could be a little more understanding. I only know four well that I can think of, and I only really talk to two of them about it (one boy and one girl). Sorry they live faraway. I think the 'why' is the same reason you and I are Christian. Did you see the play 'Children of a Lesser God'? It was about a deaf girl and her hearing boyfriend. One of the points of the play was about hearing people trying to understand deaf people simply on their own, without knowing or talking to the deaf or anything. We can't understand other people the way we want to. You have to understand them as they are. You have to know & love someone to understand them. I'm sorry you don't have any gay Christian friends. Some might need you. "Probably millions more, too, if ..." --> this is my reason for being here. My gay male friend mentioned above thought he couldn't be Christian. He was interested to see Boswell's arguments. Did I mislead him? I think not. I have/will show him both/all sides. It's up to him and God now. The lesbian friend is considering a life of chastity, but is also quite interested. Another friend of mine -- a strong Christian that I relate with quite well, but who also lives far away -- his father is gay, and it really bothers him. I'm sending him a copy of all this, too. > I do not understand, why would someone want to be a Christian and > a homosexual. That is the same as saying, Hi, I am a Christian rapist, > or Christian murderer, or a Christian adulterer. You can't follow Jesus > and still remain in sin. Want to be gay? Do you know ANY gays? No, Christians don't want to sin. But we're back to the origional question of whether it is sinful. > It is not right to treat a gay person as a non-human being. A Christian > is required to deal with all people in love whether we agree with what > they do or not. I accept people but not necessarily their lifestyle. > > I did not use the examples of murderer to say that homosexuality is the > most disgusting sin or anything like that. The point is you can't > even be a Christian liar, or Christian Satan worshipper. > > Light and darkness do not mix. To be a follower of Jesus we must live > by His teachings and ways. Good points. ( But I don't understand the perfection bit. You really believe that? ) > >As a Christian, you are limited to using the New Testement (unless you > >are one of those rare Christians who follows the whole of the Law). > > When were the commandments repealed? Christ's work on earth negated nothing > except the elaborate rituals associated with remission of sin. Nothing > particularly rare about that opinion. We've been over & over this one .... but it doesn't go away. So Jesus didn't come to abolish the law. That wasn't his purpose. But it was his effect. He fufilled it to the point that it doesn't matter anymore. Negated nothing except elaborate rituals? I must really misunderstand Acts 15. Lots of good points in the postings recently. Julie had some good comments concerning the Law and the New Testament. [ Julie, I saw the scripture the first time. I also saw Ron post Boswell's explanations. What I want to see is someone debate these. Actually, I did get one note informing me of Boswell's unscholarliness, but no good explanations. Just that Boswell's wrong. ] It all keeps coming back to whether or not homosexuality is evil. I just can't see the New Testament being conclusive. The following was mailed to me. I think it says a lot. > Of the ones I saw, the translations seemed inconclusive as to whether > they were referring to generic sexual immorality or to homosexuality > as part of sexual immorality. The weakest argument was the Romans 1 > argument. > > The most reliable way to find out should be to ASK, since Christians > are supposed to be able to do that sort of thing. However, this > implies the ability to LISTEN, which many Christians seem to have > forgotten. My own questioning prayers about it were answered "it is > wrong for YOU. Do not attempt to judge your brothers and sisters." > > If it IS sinful, it was ranked along with slander, gossipping, and > similar sins which aren't culturally marked as sins any more... Peace in Christ, strick! -- -- henry strickland -- the clouds project { akgua allegra hplabs inhp4 } -- school of ics / ga tech !gatech!strick -- atlanta ga 30332
hammond@petrus.UUCP (01/21/85)
> > ... > > > > If it IS sinful, it was ranked along with slander, gossipping, and > > similar sins which aren't culturally marked as sins any more... Don't forget, all the New Testament writings were from the members of a minority (Christianity was NOT the major religion of the roman empire) sect. homosexuality, slander, gossipping, and such were probably not considered "sins" by the greek or roman culture of the time. The christian writers were calling for higher standards of conduct than the culturally acceptable level. This is to clear up the common misconception that people have that Christianity has ALWAYS been the dominant religion in the West. It had a very small (percentage wise) following during the period in which all the New Testament was written. In fact, I trace the decline of Christianity to the day when it became the "state religion." Rich Hammond (allegra | decvax) !bellcore!hammond