mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (02/20/85)
I'd like to amplify comments made by Chuck Hedrick concerning protestant
models of The Church. He indicated that they generally have a two-level
model, in that there is The Church, and then subchurchs (denominations and
sects) as divisions within it. I'm going to try to explain the semi-official
theory on this in the Episcopal Church in the remainder of the article. I
would like to note in passing that Chuck is correct in saying that
Episcopalians believe in real presence, but not transubstantiation.
O.K., on to the church. There is in fact a real One Church, manifested on
earth by churches. For various reasons they are organized into denominations
and sects; for instance, radical differences in liturgical practice prevent
absolute unification between the Greek Orthodox Church and the Southern
Baptist Conference. Obviously, differences in theology are also an important
factor. The Episcopal Church divides Christendom into three categories:
(1) Obvious heresies, such as the Mormons. These are not
recognized as part of The Church.
(2) Those groups with which agreement has been reached on key
theological and liturgical questions. These include the Anglican
Communion and the American Lutherans (excepting the Missouri
Synod, of course). Within this group, ordinations are recognized,
and intercommunion is unrestricted.
(3) All other denominations. (One could distinguish a subgroup of
groups with more seriously defective theology, such as the extreme
fundamentalists.) While baptisms by these groups are recognized,
ordinations are not, and there is only the weakest form of
intercommunion. (Many Episcopal dioceses permit communion to be
given to any baptized person.)
The effective doctrine here is that denominations exist out of convenience,
and do not represent real divisions. If we could all agree not to fight too
much, we could all be one big church.
Charley Wingate umcp-cs!mangoeamerige@sbcs.UUCP (Stephen Amerige) (02/22/85)
> I'd like to amplify comments made by Chuck Hedrick concerning protestant > models of The Church. >... > The Episcopal Church divides Christendom into three categories: > > (1) Obvious heresies, such as the Mormons. These are not > recognized as part of The Church. >... > Charley Wingate umcp-cs!mangoe Although everyone is entitled to an opinion, shouldn't we at least agree that when it comes to `religion,' very few things are *obvious*? Don't forget, two thousand years ago the teachings of Jesus were heresies! From my point of view, there are simply different systems of belief. It seems that the `crime' of heresy is imposed upon both the wicked and the great--remember Copernicus? Understandably, the Mormons are a `threat' to the protestant models of christianity--they claim to represent God's Church. But, there are also other churches which claim divine authority, so it seems to me that (1) might have been better said as: (1) Those churches which claim to be `the only divinely authorized and complete church.' These churches are not part of the fellowship of the protestant church. Stephen Amerige ...!{philabs, okstate, allegra}!sbcs!amerige
mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (02/25/85)
In article <160@sbcs.UUCP> amerige@sbcs.UUCP (Stephen Amerige) writes: [Quoting me] >> The Episcopal Church divides Christendom into three categories: >> >> (1) Obvious heresies, such as the Mormons. These are not >> recognized as part of The Church. > Although everyone is entitled to an opinion, shouldn't we at least >agree that when it comes to `religion,' very few things are *obvious*? >Don't forget, two thousand years ago the teachings of Jesus were >heresies! "Obvious heresy" was intended to mean that the doctrines of heretical church X are not reconcilable with those of the Episcopal Church on key points. The Mormon doctrines on the nature of man, for instance, are so unlike those of the Episcopal Church that there is no way to reconcile them, and so the Mormon groups are not recognized as christian. > From my point of view, there are simply different systems of belief. >It seems that the `crime' of heresy is imposed upon both the wicked and >the great--remember Copernicus? Understandably, the Mormons are a >`threat' to the protestant models of christianity--they claim to >represent God's Church. But, there are also other churches which claim >divine authority, so it seems to me that (1) might have been better >said as: > (1) Those churches which claim to be `the only divinely > authorized and complete church.' These churches are not part of > the fellowship of the protestant church. Well, we recognize as christian certain churches which claim "sole-church"-ness, such as the Romans and the Missouri Synod Lutherans (although relations have exactly been fantastic :-)). We also recognize all of the Eastern (Orthodox) churches, and have reasonably good relations with most of them; obviously, they cannot be considered protestants. Charley Wingate umcp-cs!mangoe