nlt@duke.UUCP (N. L. Tinkham) (03/02/85)
Based on the material posted by Mark Terribile, I can now make some
comments on the similarities and differences between the Episcopal and
Roman Catholic prayers of consecration.
First, several portions of the texts are in virtual word-for-word agreement.
The Sanctus and the closing doxology appear in all variations of both
traditions. The account of the institution of the Eucharist ("On the night
he was betrayed, he took bread...") also agrees in all variations, with
slight differences in wording; the words are, of course, based on the
account given in I Corinthians 11.
There is much less word-for-word agreement in the remaining portions of
the texts. It should be noted, however, that both traditions provide
several different texts, so that even within a single tradition there is
the freedom to select a text appropriate to the season or occasion. What
is significant (or, at least, what I found interesting) was that the texts
do not fall easily into two categories of "obviously Roman" and "obviously
Episcopalian".
The only noteworthy differences I was able to spot are the following:
1) The sentence in the first form as posted by Mark Terribile,
"... May their merits and prayers gain us your constant help and protection,"
is one that would not be likely to appear in an Episcopalian service.
[I am assuming that "they" are the saints who have gone before us.]
Although we do pray for the dead (and presumably they can pray for us),
the idea of us benefitting from the merits of the saints is not, as I
understand it, characteristically Anglican.
2) Apparently, in the Roman prayers, the words of consecration precede
the account of the institution, whereas in the Episcopalian prayers the
order is reversed. I cannot think of any theological reason to favor one
order over the other, but it seems to be a consistent difference.
In answer to the original question (statement?) posted by Vince Marchionni:
I have difficulty in analyzing your words of consecration in relation
to ours. Please post yours and comment.
the significant differences in actual wording are few. I (as an Episcopalian)
would feel comfortable in a service which used any of the prayers posted
by M. Terribile. I expect that the reverse would hold. As for "analyzing
[the] words of consecration", it should be noted that the *meaning* of
"Sanctify them by your Holy Spirit to be for your people the Body and Blood
of your Son" (or any of the other, parallel phrases) will be different for
a Roman Catholic than for an Anglican (the former would understand the phrase
to mean a literal transformation of "substance" or "essence"; the latter
would not).
N. L. Tinkham
duke!nltnlt@duke.UUCP (N. L. Tinkham) (03/02/85)
[bug-proofing line]
Based on the material posted by Mark Terribile, I can now make some
comments on the similarities and differences between the Episcopal and
Roman Catholic prayers of consecration.
First, several portions of the texts are in virtual word-for-word agreement.
The Sanctus and the closing doxology appear in all variations of both
traditions. The account of the institution of the Eucharist ("On the night
he was betrayed, he took bread...") also agrees in all variations, with
slight differences in wording; the words are, of course, based on the
account given in I Corinthians 11.
There is much less word-for-word agreement in the remaining portions of
the texts. It should be noted, however, that both traditions provide
several different texts, so that even within a single tradition there is
the freedom to select a text appropriate to the season or occasion. What
is significant (or, at least, what I found interesting) was that the texts
do not fall easily into two categories of "obviously Roman" and "obviously
Episcopalian".
The only noteworthy differences I was able to spot are the following:
1) The sentence in the first form as posted by Mark Terribile,
"... May their merits and prayers gain us your constant help and protection,"
is one that would not be likely to appear in an Episcopalian service.
[I am assuming that "they" are the saints who have gone before us.]
Although we do pray for the dead (and presumably they can pray for us),
the idea of us benefitting from the merits of the saints is not, as I
understand it, characteristically Anglican.
2) Apparently, in the Roman prayers, the words of consecration precede
the account of the institution, whereas in the Episcopalian prayers the
order is reversed. I cannot think of any theological reason to favor one
order over the other, but it seems to be a consistent difference.
In answer to the original question (statement?) posted by Vince Marchionni:
I have difficulty in analyzing your words of consecration in relation
to ours. Please post yours and comment.
the significant differences in actual wording are few. I (as an Episcopalian)
would feel comfortable in a service which used any of the prayers posted
by M. Terribile. I expect that the reverse would hold. As for "analyzing
[the] words of consecration", it should be noted that the *meaning* of
"Sanctify them by your Holy Spirit to be for your people the Body and Blood
of your Son" (or any of the other, parallel phrases) will be different for
a Roman Catholic than for an Anglican (the former would understand the phrase
to mean a literal transformation of "substance" or "essence"; the latter
would not).
N. L. Tinkham
duke!nlt