david@terak.UUCP (David Jayakaran) (02/27/85)
[] > For instance, these days, there are very few Christians around who > condone the burning of non-christians as an act done out of obedience > to God. Burning of non-christians? Where? When? Can I watch, please :-) See below. > Worse, for all the ``official'' pronouncements to the contrary, there > are still a lot of people who call themselves Christian and who > advocate the persecution of various other faiths. I would call into question their "christianity". Nobody is a Christian just because they say they are. Jesus Himself made that very clear in Matthew 7:20-23, Luke 13:25-27. It's whether they live according to the principles of Jesus Christ. Please do not classify me with the people who conducted the Inquisition and the crusades. Christians were those who were stoned, hung, drawn and quartered, boiled, burned and fed to the lions (and THEY were the "heretics"). Oh! if only people would read some church history *and* their Bibles before making such statements...... > These days, most Christians feel that the people who commited > such atrocities ``in the name of Christ'' were, at best, mistaken > and at worst evil. Right, and they weren't Christians either, unless they repented for their atrocities... > The mentality of the witch burners is alive and well in Ontario. . . > and other places as well. By the time I was 12, I had run across it, > and been strapped and ``had the devil beaten out of me'' by some > very well meaning people who truly thought that this was what God > wanted them to do with pantheists. Since they ran the school I > was attending at the time there was little that I could do (or > at least that I thought I could do) except take the weekly > strappings in stride -- until I left that school. What happened to you was pretty unfortunate but is there any Biblical basis for saying that what they did to you was Christian? I know hindus in India who do EXACTLY the same thing. You haven't even stated that those people called themselves Christians. Am I to assume this? > How much effort would it take to organise these people back into > killing people whose beliefs they found offensive? At the time > I thought that very little effort would be required. And I wonder > how much resistence they would meet from their neighbours. Not much, I'm sure. Hitler started his campaign from a quasi-religious platform, so-called "christianity". By your standards Hitler was a christian. How about the Klan? Of course, you are entitled to your opinion... > Historically, Christianity has been used as a wonderful vehicle for people to > justify the particular groups that they use to vent their hatred and as > a focus for their fears. Christianity isn't the vehicle. Historically, PEOPLE have twisted what the Bible says out of context to suit whatever they want to do. Such people are talked about in II Peter 3:16. Please don't attribute to the Word of God the perversions of the people misusing it. Again, please refer to Matthew 7:20-23 and Luke 13:25-27. > From my perspective, whether this is ``correct'' or not is irrelevant -- > any document that out and outs says that one shall not ``suffer a witch to > live'' is very, very dangerous. Anybody who decides to kill me can use that > particular quote as a fruitful starting ground. Yes, they could. They are not Christian either. Christianity is discipleship to Jesus Christ. Jesus said "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that despitefully use you, and persecute you." Matthew 7:45. If they are not doing this, don't call them Christian. > Is the word of those who do not believe that God actually meant this > line of John (so why is it there?) going to prevail over those who > read it and interpret it to literally declare a religious open season > on witches? If so, why? Why is what where? Book, chapter, verse and author (again), please? > In talking to a good many Christians on the issue I have found that a > surprising number of them think that there either ``are no real witches > today'' or that anyone who professes to be a witch is in need of psychiatric > help, because ``one could not seriously believe this''. Tell that to Doreen Irvine (author of "Freed From Witchcraft"). It would be interesting to see her reaction. > Involuntary committal may be better than burning, but I wonder. Is the > primary reason that Christians have given up witch burning that they think > that either there never were witches or that, if there were, they have killed > all of them off? Better not invite them to Pan Pagan Festival then... Christians never gave up witch burning. They never did it in the first place. If you will take the time to do some research into the Salem witch burnings, you will learn that the actual witches got off scot free. It was innocent, law abiding, citizens (women) who were victims of the mob hysteria. Open your eyes and look around you. "Witch burning" has been going on all along, under various names. Try "world war", "holocaust", "religous wars", "liberation theology", "ideological wars", etc., etc., etc. > I worry about this a lot. What do *you* think will keep a return of > the killing of heretics from occurring? Laura Creighton (pagan heretic) Honey, you better believe it's coming. It may shock you who will be called the heretic. Not you, but people like me. So rest easy, it'll pass ya by. Come quickly Lord Jesus. -- David uucp: ...{decvax,hao,ihnp4,seismo}!noao!terak!david phone: [602] 998-4800 us mail: Terak Corporation, 14151 N 76th street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Jesus said unto him, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes unto the Father but by me. (John 14 : 6)
mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) (03/03/85)
>Christians never gave up witch burning. They never did it in the first >place. If you will take the time to do some research into the Salem witch >burnings, you will learn that the actual witches got off scot free. It was >innocent, law abiding, citizens (women) who were victims of the mob >hysteria. Salem isn't the only place in the world to harbour Christians, you know. Thousands of people were burned as witches throughout the Christian world. I have a certificate (authentic) that says I am not a witch, issued in Oudewater (Netherlands). Why do they issue such certificates? Because one of the tests of a witch was that s/he weighed less than a formula based on height dictated, and in many places the public weighmaster could be bribed to show that an unwanted person was as light as a feather on the scales. At Oudewater, the weighmaster was shown to be incorruptible and the Emperor gave a permanent certification for the Oudewater scales. Anyone shown there to be not a witch was free of suspicion for life. Your definition of Christian conforms to mine (essentially to live as Jesus proclaimed), but it sure lets out most of the people who have historically believed themselves to be Christian, and moral and upright and dutybound to ensure that whatever happened to some poor unfortunate body, the soul would go to heaven. -- Martin Taylor {allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt {uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsri!dciem!mmt