fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (03/18/85)
Subject: Christian attitudes toward homosexuality Newsgroups: net.christian In article <burdvax.1972> bnapl@burdvax.UUCP (Tom Albrecht) writes: > >[...] A man living in adultery, drunkenness or homosexuality is not >exhibiting the marks of a true Christian. Steps should be taken >to discipline those who are living in open rebellion to the Word of God. >[...] After much prayer and exhortation, they would have been excommunicated >if they remained in their sin (no matter what the sin). Of course, >they will seek our those of their own thinking and band together to >form a new "church". That doesn't mean it's a Christian church. Just >saying it's so doesn't make it so. I have met Christians who sin regularly. True, they also repent regularly, but the sinning continues. These people are members of traditional, fundamentalist congregations. Christians have explained this to me by maxims such as: "A church is not a museum for saints, but hospital for sinners." and "Christians are not perfect -- just forgiven." So why should homosexual behavior be treated more harshly than other sins? Is it because homosexuals sin in an unconventional way? Frank Silbermann University of North Carolina
garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson) (03/19/85)
> I have met Christians who sin regularly. There aren't any other kind. > True, they also repent regularly, > but the sinning continues. These people are members of traditional, > fundamentalist congregations. Christians have explained this to me > by maxims such as: > > "A church is not a museum for saints, but hospital for sinners." > and > "Christians are not perfect -- just forgiven." > > So why should homosexual behavior be treated more harshly than other sins? > Is it because homosexuals sin in an unconventional way? No, it's because they don't "repent regularly." (If that is the case.) If a Christian has fallen into the habit of lying, for example, then he may not be able to get away from that habit immediately. Is he still a liar, though he is a Christian? Well, probably, but he's working on it. Sometimes conversion to Christianity results in immediate, dramatic changes; other times the changes are gradual. I have no problems with a homosexual Christian who, believing that homosexual acts are sinful, is trying to get away from it. I definitely would have a problem with a homosexual Christian, who, believing that homosexual acts are sinful, makes no effort to change. I have somewhat less of a problem with a homosexual Christian who sincerely believes that homosexual acts are not sinful, but that may be my problem, not necessarily his. So, in answer to your question, homosexual behavior should not be treated more harshly than other sins. Now, since someone will no doubt ask why I consider homosexual behavior to be sinful, I will try to explain, probably once and only once, since there has already been enough flaming about it. Genesis says, "A man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife." It doesn't say he may cleave unto anyone who suits him, only his wife. Perhaps a little clearer is I Cor. 7:2, where Paul says, "Because of the temptation to immorality, let each man have his own wife and each woman her own husband." The implication that the only way to avoid immorality (other than total abstinence, which Paul agreed was too hard for some) is heterosexual monogamy seems pretty clear, and such implication does not depend on any particular translation of "porneia," rendered "immorality" here. Someone who disagrees with my conclusion might want to start a discussion on the principles of hermeneutics. > Frank Silbermann > University of North Carolina Gary Samuelson ittvax!bunker!garys
ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis) (03/20/85)
>Now, since someone will no doubt ask why I consider homosexual >behavior to be sinful, I will try to explain, probably once and >only once, since there has already been enough flaming about it. >Genesis says, "A man shall leave his father and mother and cleave >unto his wife." It doesn't say he may cleave unto anyone who >suits him, only his wife. This argument makes gays no more sinful than, say, old maids, or Catholic Priests. >Perhaps a little clearer is I Cor. 7:2, >where Paul says, "Because of the temptation to immorality, let >each man have his own wife and each woman her own husband." The >implication that the only way to avoid immorality (other than >total abstinence, which Paul agreed was too hard for some) is >heterosexual monogamy seems pretty clear, and such implication >does not depend on any particular translation of "porneia," rendered >"immorality" here. ============================================================================== Corinthians 7 (From the Nestle Greek Text): 1. Peri de hwn egrapsate: kalon anthrwpw gunaikos my haptesthai Concerning of that you wrote: good for a man a woman not to touch. 2. dia de tas porneias, hekastos tyn heautou gunaika exetw, Because of [??????] each man his own wife let have kai hekasty ton idion andra exetw. and each woman her own husband let have. 1. Now concerning the things you wrote: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2. But because of [porneias], let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. From Follett's "Classic Greek Dictionary": porneia (fem n.) fornication, prostitution porneuw (verb) to prostitute:- Pass., of a woman, to be or become a harlot porny, (fem n.) a harlot pornoboskew (verb) to keep a brothel pornoboskia (fem n) brothel-keeping BTW, `porneias' is the accusative plural of `porneia'. ============================================================================== Your reference would seem to actually PREFER longterm homosexual relationship, especially if it kept people away from brothels! Incidentally, I DO wish people be more careful when announcing their own beliefs. Contributors to this group often say "Christians believe P" when they oughta say "Orthodox Christians/Catholics/X/I Believe P". How many people here can speak for the Quakers or Christian Scientists? -michael