popyack@uvm-cs.UUCP (Poppery L. Jeffayack) (06/04/85)
I have read the Encyclopedia Britanica Macropedia entries for "Jesus" and "Bible". Everyone should do this for they are very interesting. It is not certain or clear that Jesus claimed divinity for himself. Also the oldest Gospel, Mark, ends with an empty tomb and no mention of a resurrected Jesus appearing to the disciples (the most ancient versions). Also there is no virgin birth mentioned in this Gospel. That makes me suspect that the later Gospel writers embellished the story. It is doubtful that any of the Gospel writers was an eyewitness. The Gospel of John has Jesus saying "I am the Word". This concept has a Greek cast to it, and was not likely to have been spoken by Jesus.
john@starfire.UUCP (John Lind) (06/06/85)
> I have read the Encyclopedia Britanica Macropedia entries for "Jesus" and > "Bible". Everyone should do this for they are very interesting. It is not > certain or clear that Jesus claimed divinity for himself. Also the oldest > Gospel, Mark, ... Mark 14: 61-62 " ... are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" Jesus answered, "I am, and you shall see ..." This is the clearest to the reader not versed in OT imagery, so often used by Jesus when addressing his almost exclusively Jewish audience. Some of them ("before Abraham was, I AM", "I am the way, the truth and THE LIGHT", accepting worship, oneness with God, and so on) are very powerful, beautiful, and obviously understood by the Jewish audience who reacted with what seems like disproportionate vehemence if you don't understand it the way they did. > ..., Mark, ends with an empty tomb and no mention of a resurrected Jesus > appearing to the disciples (the most ancient versions). Also there is no > virgin birth mentioned in this Gospel. The Markan Gospel we have ends quite abruptly at 16:8, and it is generally accepted by those with confidence in the text that the conclusion of the book is lost. It is true that there is no mention of a virgin birth in this book, in fact no mention of the birth at all! It starts with John preaching in the wilderness. You may speculate on the causes of that all you like, from it being unremarkable to it being so commonly known as to not be included, but that is all it will be -- speculation. > That makes me suspect that the later Gospel > writers embellished the story. It is doubtful that any of the Gospel writers > was an eyewitness. Doubtful to whom? Many serious scholars believe that Matthew was the one whom Jesus called from tax collecting, that Mark is John Mark, who got his information from Peter, and that John is the same one who sat next to Jesus during that final Passover meal. Luke, of course, openly says that he is not an eyewitness, but rather that he has gone to great pains to talk to many eyewitnesses, and he appeals to their authority to confirm or deny what he has written. > The Gospel of John has Jesus saying "I am the Word". This > concept has a Greek cast to it, and was not likely to have been spoken by > Jesus. I don't understand this at all. Whatever a Greek "cast" is, it has more than that -- it is written in Greek. The entire NT is, except for tiny excerpts or phrases, and those are usually given with the translation by the author. Jesus probably spoke and taught in Hebrew and Aramaic, so none of the Gospels, with rare and tiny exceptions of Aramaic, are his "exact" words. If I was translating your statement into Greek, I would use the best Greek I could. I hope you would do the same for me(:-). ------ "The question 'Can machines think?' ... [is] as ill-posed and uninteresting as the question 'Can submarines swim?'" -Dr. E W Dijkstra, EWD-854 John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services E-mail: ihnp4!umn-cs!digi-g!starfire!john USnail: PO Box 13001, Mpls MN 55414