k111@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Peter Kim) (06/13/85)
Few months ago, a friend of mine was taken by her parents to a deprogrammer. She received "treatment" for about two weeks, somewhere in Wisconsin. When she came back, not only she stopped going to the church she had been going for about five years, but also she started telling people how bad the church is. Although I realize how a person may misunderstand the church and that her charges against the church is not groundless, several things about deprogamming greatly disturb me. First, I used to think that the deprogramming techniques were applied only to those who had been deceived into cults like the Moonies. I do not think, however, the church she had been attending is a cult. Who will decide what is a cult? How easy and dangerous to call a church a cult, only because the members of the church are far more dedicated to God than the members in other churches! Second, is it ethical, or even legal, to take a person to a deprogrammer against his or her will? In the case of my friend, she says that she agreed with her parents to see a deprogrammer. However, I have heard the cases in which some people were taken to deprogrammers against their wills. Having been a close friend of hers and having attended the church, I am deeply troubled that her parents might have made a terrible mistake and that, because she is making accusations against the church, some people, who otherwise might have decided to study the Bible in the church, may decide agianst the idea; she may be doing things aginst God's will.
padraig@utastro.UUCP (Padraig Houlahan) (06/15/85)
> Although I realize how a person may misunderstand the church > and that her charges against the church is not groundless, several > things about deprogamming greatly disturb me. First, I used to > think that the deprogramming techniques were applied only to those > who had been deceived into cults like the Moonies. I do not think, > however, the church she had been attending is a cult. Who will decide > what is a cult? How easy and dangerous to call a church a cult, only > because the members of the church are far more dedicated to God than > the members in other churches! Personally I would say that the criterion for deciding whether or not something is a cult, is the degree of recognition accorded to it by society. Philosophically, there may not be much differencr between a cult and a religion. By this, christianity would have started out as a cult, and evolved into a religion. > Having been a close friend of hers and having attended the church, > I am deeply troubled that her parents might have made a terrible > mistake and that, because she is making accusations against the church, > some people, who otherwise might have decided to study the Bible in > the church, may decide agianst the idea; she may be doing things aginst > God's will. It's funny that you say this, since I would claim that indoctrinating young children in one's religion before they are old enough to decide fairly for themselves is a serious violation of their rights. Padraig Houlahan.
z@rocksvax.UUCP (06/21/85)
Since the parents believe that living their religion is the optimal
way of living their lives then what would you have them teach their children?
I detect a non-argument going on here....
//Z\\
James M. Ziobro
Ziobro.Henr@Xerox.COM
{rochester,amd,sunybcs,allegra}!rocksvax!zdubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (06/21/85)
>> Having been a close friend of hers and having attended the church, >> I am deeply troubled that her parents might have made a terrible >> mistake and that, because she is making accusations against the church, >> some people, who otherwise might have decided to study the Bible in >> the church, may decide agianst the idea; she may be doing things aginst >> God's will. > > It's funny that you say this, since I would claim that indoctrinating > young children in one's religion before they are old enough to > decide fairly for themselves is a serious violation of their rights. > > Padraig Houlahan. Perhaps we should hand them over to you to be indoctrinated with your beliefs? Or do you have no beliefs? Or (more likely), do you have beliefs which are so transparent to you that it appears to you that you are neutral? -- | Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois --+-- | |
padraig@utastro.UUCP (Padraig Houlahan) (06/23/85)
> >> Having been a close friend of hers and having attended the church, > >> I am deeply troubled that her parents might have made a terrible > >> mistake and that, because she is making accusations against the church, > >> some people, who otherwise might have decided to study the Bible in > >> the church, may decide agianst the idea; she may be doing things aginst > >> God's will. > > > > It's funny that you say this, since I would claim that indoctrinating > > young children in one's religion before they are old enough to > > decide fairly for themselves is a serious violation of their rights. > > > > Padraig Houlahan. > > Perhaps we should hand them over to you to be indoctrinated with > your beliefs? > > Or do you have no beliefs? Go and read the articles that followed the above. I have outlined my perspective there. > Or (more likely), do you have beliefs which are so transparent to you > that it appears to you that you are neutral? > | > Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois --+-- If you had read the follow-up articles you would know that I am not neutral, and never claimed to be. The whole point of my reply, that you quoted above, was to highlight the fact that on this issue there is a radically different way of looking at it, as is true with most other topics that concern the interaction between religious thought and society. Padraig Houlahan.
Yoda@ssc-vax.UUCP (Yoda Necron) (06/24/85)
Whenever I see postings by Padraig Houlahan, I am reminded of the Scopes Monkey Trail where the following conversation took place (paraphrased and with guaranteed spelling errors: Clarence Darrow: You believe, then, that everything, by its existence, proves something about GOD? William Jennings Byran: Yes. C.D.: Well then, what does my existence prove to you about GOD? W.J.B. (after thinking): That he has a sense of humor. "I know the world is hollow, for I have touched the sky." -Yoda Necron-